To ask for MN views: DH and I can’t agree on SEN school vs MS

[ClocksATickin]

DC10. Currently in a small private primary school but due to changes in employment, will be going to a state secondary.

DC has a diagnosis of ASD, high anxiety and is being screened for mutism (they have full language but is unable to speak to anyone expect a few close friends and nuclear family; not a soul more than this).

Currently receives SaLT and OT .

DC is compliant and masks very well in school but is explosive, uncooperative and demand avoidant at home. They have SEN support in school.

Academically meeting targets but has made no progress in social and emotional development and is behind in this area.

EHCP is in draft stage; we do not currently know the content.

I want to investigate our out of county specialist school who specialise in communication and interaction difficulties (ASD) and moderate learning disabilities.

DH wants DC to attend the state comprehensive which gets very good results, is high pressure and academic in nature. SEN support appears to be good but, I wasn’t thrilled with some of the SENco’s suggestions as it really felt they didn’t understand my DC needs.

I think DC would be happier in the SEN school as they appear more suited to DC as a whole person. Plus, DC struggles with things such as organisation, home learning and homework —completely refuses— .

DH feels that the loss of full GCSE avenue is too big of a gamble.

It’s causing a lot of friction between us and we have to make a decision.

AIBU to think I am right and DH is most certainly wrong?

SEN but make sure it’s nurturing and isn’t just a pru for kids with a diagnosis.

My dd crashed out of mainstream secondary despite being predicted top grade GCSEs across the board and having an EHCP that gave her support throughout the day. After a battle she now attends an independent specialist school. She will leave with five GCSEs but more importantly with her MH intact and a better understanding of who she is and what she needs in terms of support going forward. LA will invariably name mainstream but with independent assessments that identify all needs and most likely a trip to Tribunal then it's possible to get a place in a school that better fits your child's needs.

Will you actually have the choice of an out of area specialist SEN school, with local funding?

@Dozer my daughter is at an out of County independent specialist school that our LA fund along with transport costs. It's possible if you can supply evidence at Tribunal that the school is the one that can best meet needs.

If it's the school in Cardiff that I went to then I wholeheartedly agree - I was only there for 1 year (my third high school) but they immediately spotted that I was an undiagnosed dyslexic and that my behavioral issues that I had at the time were mostly rooted in that. Really supportive and fantastic SEN team and great pastoral care!

@ShopTattsyrup

If it's the school in Cardiff that I went to then I wholeheartedly agree - I was only there for 1 year (my third high school) but they immediately spotted that I was an undiagnosed dyslexic and that my behavioral issues that I had at the time were mostly rooted in that. Really supportive and fantastic SEN team and great pastoral care!

Complete tag fail there - this was in response to @socksey 🤦‍♀️

DH has just been re reading the paperwork and we seem to have spectacularly misunderstood the process .

It is highly unlikely we are anywhere near draft stage; we had presumed that the draft would be our thoughts of what we were “asking for” and we were awaiting a copy of this

We’re going to spend the weekend researching the process properly

Sorry to hear of all the DC struggling in MS

@hiredandsqueak how do you prove a particular school can or can’t meet needs?

The whole process is so daunting.

@ClocksATickin

DH has just been re reading the paperwork and we seem to have spectacularly misunderstood the process .

It is highly unlikely we are anywhere near draft stage; we had presumed that the draft would be our thoughts of what we were “asking for” and we were awaiting a copy of this

We’re going to spend the weekend researching the process properly

When was the request for a Statutory Needs assessment made? Have the LEA agreed to assess?

Have you applied for the needs assessment? That’s the first stage of the process and in reality a lot get refused at that stage even though they meet the criteria.

Good luck, sadly the whole system is designed badly and as such is designed to make things as hard as possible for parents. Things like local parent carer forums can be great for support on a local level and the SN boards on here alrhough quiet are supportive and full of people who know the system

@Howshouldibehave assessment has definitely been agreed as our current school SENco confirmed it. We don’t have the confirmation yet as it was only a few days ago when I had last spoken to DC school.

I have worked in mainstream and now in an MLD designated special, with a lot of ASC kids.

You’re spot on in that the pay off of coming to us is loss of academic qualifications.

However, many of our young people move on to colleges with supported learning environments where they then gain the qualifications they need for access to FE/HE/ the workplace.

I would take a lot of stock in what his current school think as they are the ones who know him best in an educational setting. Some kids will cope just fine with a bit of support in MS. Some won’t and crash and burn and end up with us anyway with years of heartache or having been 1:1’d to death and incapable of doing anything for themselves.

Being different in MS can be horrible. At special, being different is what we all are and is celebrated, accepted and loved.

However, I have seen bored kids who are brighter than their peers and still struggling to fit in at special, who grow frustrated quickly.

It’s a difficult decision and if I were you I would very much be guided by his current school.

You generally need independent assessments made by SALT, OT, and Ed Psych. These identify your child's needs and the provision needed to make those needs.
These professionals are also likely to have knowledge of the specialist provisions in the local area. So the ed psych who assessed dd had previously worked at the school dd now attends and suggested we look. The school then assessed dd and agreed they could meet her needs.
It's a case of getting good independent reports that show that what is needed can't be supplied in any other school more specifically can't be supplied by the school the LA name on the EHCP and preparing to appeal to SENDIST

GCSEs are not the benchmark of a good education. I think it's really hard to get your head round that with children who have SEN.

You have to think, what do I want my child to be as a young adult? I want DS to be happy, understand who he is, what he's good at and what his challenges are, understand them and understand that he is different but no less - that's the only way he'll succeed as an adult and make his way in life. To NT children, this process is fairly easy and they can get GCSEs along the way. ASD children, not so much.

My son, who is academically gifted and was explosive and autistic was out of primary for 2 years as the wheels fell off and they treated him so badly. But we didn't understand the system / process - we were just constantly told, he had to stay in MS as he was bright. Once out, it was easier to get a SEN placement.

Now, he's not explosive because his needs are met. He's happy, stable, says he doesn't have to hide who he is at school now and everyone is 'normal' to him. He's got good friends and really experienced, solid adults guiding him but not babysitting him. His social communication skills and mental health has vastly vastly improved.

He can get about 5 or 6 GCSEs at this school. He'd get none at MS as he can't learn in the traditional way and his mental health would have broken. Hopefully, he'll move on to college later on and expand any qualifications he needs then.

I'd be VERY worried about a boy with autism and SM in a small private school who is exploding at home now. My first worry would be school refusal and out of education for years in a MS secondary.

IPSEA are brilliant but we are inundated. There are excellent on-line webinars on the SOSSEN website which will walk you through the process.

In terms of parental choice, if your child is a good fit for specialist provision as evidenced by the reports which inform his EHCP, then you have a good chance of getting a place at the SEN provision you want. Remember the law says that if the school can meet the needs of the child, then the LA must secure a place so long as the placement is not “incompatible with the effective education of others or an inefficient use of public funds.” That is the legal point that takes most parents to Tribunal.

You always have the right to mainstream though. The devil is in the detail of the EP and OT reports. If they say “he needs small class sizes of under 10 in a low arousal environment and a differentiated curriculum” for example and the only school around is a private mainstream then they must fund the place if there’s no alternative available.

The law is very strong. Getting the LA to follow it is another thing altogether. My best advice is to ensure that your Plan reflects the wording of the reports and that there is a specific and quantified provision in terms of hours and who delivers it, in section F which corresponds to EACH of the SEN identified in section B. Far too many people focus on section E (outcomes) when actually you can’t appeal them and they’re a consequence of the provision delivered.

Also I agree with what HideandSqueak said.

Link to SOS SEN page webinars which have been recorded. They are excellent.

OP if you’re still reading, spend the money on reports not lawyers.

www.sossen.org.uk/events.php

Thank you for all this information; we have a lot to go through at the weekend when DC is with my mum.

Ok. Start with the SOSSEN webinars. Best ten quid you will spend.

@Bigbluebuttons I have looked at those links and they seem very helpful so we are planning to sign up

Thank you to everyone who has posted; there’s too many of you to go through each reply but you’ve all been super !

@VaccineMcQueen

I write EHCPs and tbh, you won't get much choice. The schools will be asked if they can meet need and your panel will place at MS if they say yes (and can direct if they say no). Don't get your heart set in special as you may be disappointed 😞

Then she would have the right of appeal, regardless of what the panel say - there are many parents here, myself included, who’ve fought long and difficult legal battles against LAs pushing unsuitable schools and won (in fact the vast majority win).

OP I had to do it myself too, with no prior knowledge. You absolutely have to inform yourself because the LA will lie, spout unlawful policies and generally do as little as they can get away with. We had to go to tribunal for both twins but it was worth it in the end.

Places in SN schools are like gold dust . If the mainstream say they can meet your son’s needs then you will have a battle to get a secondary place anyway.

@lostlife

Depending on where you are in the country he won't meet the threshold for special.

Resource provision in a secondary school?

This. If the criteria are ASD & MLD (or just one or the other?) then DC may not meet criteria. Agree that there may not be a peer group. Resource base attached to MS secondary may be an option if one available locally?