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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To keep a ‘bad’ dog?

150 replies

2ndaryInfertilityage30 · 19/05/2021 09:38

I’m sure I will be slated, but hear me out.

My dog is 2 - she was not a lock down dog. I bought her as a Cockerpoo with her dad being a toy poodle. She looks exactly like a large cocker spaniel and nothing like a cockerpoo. She is so so strong that my kids can’t walk her. She has pulled my mother in law over and she spent 5 days in hospital. (This lady is pretty strong)

I work just 8 hours a week, so I have time to walk her. She needs an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening otherwise she will destroy our house. I was prepared to walk a dog every day - come rain or sun, but her needs are excessive.

If I leave her for so much as an hour she will poop on the house in protest. When let off the lead we have the exhaust her with a game of fetch otherwise she will not come back (we have invested a lot of time and money in training) we offer her roast chicken as a treat - she will only come back when she feels like it.

She scratches all our doors and destroys the kids toys if anything is left out.

She is not the dog I thought I was getting (relatively small) she is medium to large and just so unruly. She is aggressive with other dogs (never us and she is very sweet with the children)

The kids love her, we always thought we were against the idea of re homing but this is getting out of hand.

I guess - AIBU to consider rehoming options - for her happiness and ours.

OP posts:
CHISistoast · 19/05/2021 11:36

Ps they are sods for separation anxiety, sorry I haven't rtft as meant to be working but: try popping out for ten mins, come back with big fuss . Then again and repeat till she stops pooing. My dog Walker told me she'd seen a programme where dogs' brains were scanned and they actually respond better to praise than treats, so that's something to bear in mind.

Branleuse · 19/05/2021 11:38

sounds like maybe she needs to be a working dog. Spaniels are gun dogs, I wonder if you could find a breed specific place where they could find her a working home. Might be the making of her.

SomewhereInbetween1 · 19/05/2021 11:42

I have a working cocker and she's placid as anything, my sister's Springer spaniel on the other hand is a lot more work than mine, and if your cockerpoo is quite big, could it be that she's part Springer instead? Working spaniels are generally smaller.

Nonbibblebibble · 19/05/2021 11:43

She's NOT a BAD dog. She's not been trained properly. She needs to be taught to walk without pulling, ( you can do it in 20 minutes, not even kidding) she needs more stimulation, she needs regular walks, and to be taught how to toilet properly. It sounds like your are leaving her alone too long. She's anxious PLUS you don't seem to have socialised her properly.
Please find her a good home with people who will have time for her.

WiddlinDiddlin · 19/05/2021 11:51

She's not a bad dog.. and I am sure you know that really, she's a dog who isn't having her needs met and is therefore behaving like a dog who hasn't had her needs met.

There is FAR more to positive reinforcement training than simply offering a sweetie when they do the right thing, so if thats what you've understood about it, I can absolutely see why you are struggling.

First, you manage - so you avoid setting your dog up to fail, you manage where you take her, when, who with, you arrange that the rewards you have on offer are the highest level possible - for a cocker, that might be food, but it also might be toys, the opportunity to follow scent, the opportunity to find hidden objects, to retrieve...

Once your management is on point, you look at what you need to do to improve things.

If she reacts to things either out of fear or frustration you need to alter that with counter conditioning or desensitization - you really will need a good behaviour consultant to show you how to do that, timing is everything. Counter conditioning is 'see that thing/hear that thing = get a sweetie', - the reinforcer is not contingent on 'good' behaviour or compliance with a cue here. Its pairing one thing with another to change an emotional reaction - change the emotion and the behaviour will change.

Some things will THEN need training using operant conditioning (do what i ask, get a sweetie) - I suspect you've been trying to do this, when you needed to do counter conditioning and thats why its failed.

She will need 2 hours exercise per day, but if you can break it down into shorter, more positive walks that include a lot of training and interaction with you, whilst at the same time avoiding her practicing unwanted behaviours, you might find its much easier to keep her satisfied and relaxed with less actual physical exercise.

She almost certain has separation anxiety or separation frustration - dogs do not poo as revenge or spite, they do it out of stress/distress.

Get a pet camera, set that up to see what she does when you leave for a few minutes (do a stooge leave not a real one where you can't immediately return). If she can't settle herself in a truly relaxed way (note that lying rigid like a board pointing at the door you left via is NOT relaxed!) within a minute or so of being left... then she has a problem and it won't get better by itself.

The stress she may be experiencing from being left when she can't cope, exposed to stuff on walks she can't cope with, not getting enough training/mental puzzles etc... could well be why she is a pain in the arse to live with.

I'd recommend the Dog Training Advice and Support group on Facebook - you do have to join and read the guides and its NOT a chat/debate/opinion group, follow the rules and you'll have some help within a few days, entirely free - they also have premium groups for more support which is a bit of a halfway house between free and hiring a behaviourist (And if they think you need to still do that, they will tell you!).

BrownEyedGirl80 · 19/05/2021 11:51

Very surprised that at 2 years you haven't got a bond.My dog can be a nightmare but I wouldn't be without him.

Iheartmysmart · 19/05/2021 11:54

I’ve got a show cocker and he is bloody hard work. He’s a solid, strong and stubborn little sod. I’ve had him 10 years, and the first two were absolute hell. It took a lot of consistent training to get to the point where I wasn’t returning from every walk in tears.
He needs his mind kept busy so we play hide and seek around the flat with little treats, food hidden in empty boxes for him to work out how to get them and just training sessions doing the basics. I always take something for him to carry when we are out walking. He gets overtired if we walk for too long then he gets silly so I need to be very aware of his signals and head home before it gets out of hand. He’s basically a furry toddler!

Happybutexhausted · 19/05/2021 12:01

I suggest contacting Pupcakes rescue. Liz takes in and works with a lot of Cockerpoos. They are well known for their difficulties. She may be able to signpost you to a behaviourist in your area.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 12:12

Sorry OP! I'm going to pick that apart. I have a 2 1/2 year old Bull Terrier and he too is a handful. Training classes aren't much good, you need a behaviourist. Having said that did you go through the 'watch me' training, waiting for the dog to look towards you, make eye contact, and treat her just for that look? That's a really strong 'trick' you can use in everything else.

I still do it, sit with a packet of treats and throw one away from me, wait until dog has chewed it and looks back, throw another with "YES, Good dog" or whatever your reward cue is (clicker etc). When this works at home, and in the garden take it out to your nearest bench, work up the distraction levels - I now do this at a bus stop, people are quite happy to be a distraction if they see what you are doing!

But you need your dog to look to you for reassurance, to check in with you.

My dog is 2 - she was not a lock down dog. I bought her as a Cockerpoo with her dad being a toy poodle. She looks exactly like a large cocker spaniel and nothing like a cockerpoo. She is so so strong that my kids can’t walk her. She has pulled my mother in law over and she spent 5 days in hospital. (This lady is pretty strong) Pulling can be trained out but it needs 100% consistancy. You'll need a well fitting harness, preferable one with 2 anchor points, the one at the front turns the dog toward you when they pull, and maybe a waist strap for you. Walk the dog with a bag of any puppy training treats - the fussiness is because that's what you give her.

  • walk her and every single time the lead goes taut you stop, wait for her to turn and look at you, treat cue and throw a treat in front of you but behind her back legs.
  • It doesn't matter how long you stop or how daft you feel, consistency is key. One pull she wins will set you back.

You can segue that back into heel training after a while. Once she works out that treats come close to you!

I work just 8 hours a week, so I have time to walk her. She needs an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening otherwise she will destroy our house. I was prepared to walk a dog every day - come rain or sun, but her needs are excessive. That's not excessive but you could make it easier for yourself (and it might help with the poo issue too). Mine won't use the garden for toileting. So I have to walk him every couple of hours, Great as it fits in with my work schedule. He gets 4 or 5 10 - 20 minute walks every day. He gets to sniff every blade of grass, lamp post etc. I ask for nothing other than he does not pull.

Then he gets one hour plus walk, sometimes off lead because I can recall him with a ball, or a crowd training walk through a town centre. Town centre walks he still gets to sniff but is also asked to walk to heel and to ignore other dogs and people who want to pet him - I have a TRAINING sleeve on his lead. When people ask what he is training for I say "To be polite"

If I leave her for so much as an hour she will poop on the house in protest. When let off the lead we have the exhaust her with a game of fetch otherwise she will not come back (we have invested a lot of time and money in training) we offer her roast chicken as a treat - she will only come back when she feels like it. The pooing might just be coincidence, see above. Have those traning sessions been with an trainer who is also a behaviourist? They'll tell you that your dog is bored, anxious etc and will work with you to find sessions that suit you and the dog - but mostly they will train YOU to see the dog's behaviour for what it really is!

Recall is really important. I struggled wth this and can see it will become an issue again in future. I carry a long line with me and a bag of various toys and a few balls. He is ball obsessed so they are my toy of last resort.

We go out and we do recall training. Same as the watch me stuff but with added distance. I also taught 'touch' to make this easier, my right hand is always the touch target, it gets him back to me, usually. I can't do 'come' or any of the usual recall cues as they have been wrecked by my own misuse and errors. So I am reduced to "What's This?" whilst holding a ball in the air. He will return for that, but even that is reducing as he gets used to it, so I am working on his next step. You need to work out what your dog's motivation to return could be and then work on it!

She scratches all our doors and destroys the kids toys if anything is left out. Doors are there to be scratched, take heed the forst time she puts paw to door. Kids toys left out belong to her. Teach your kids thatanythingleft for her to reaach has been donated to her. Tough! Same goes for reading glasses, laptop cables, table corners (though Tabasco sauce can help you there), jumpers, shoes etc etc

She is not the dog I thought I was getting (relatively small) she is medium to large and just so unruly. She is aggressive with other dogs (never us and she is very sweet with the children) How aggressive? Barking, lunging or actual teeth and flying fur? Mine lunges and twirls but has no aggression, he just wants to play. He looks bloody scary though! Offlead he has no reactivity at all. In lead he needs a lot of help.

  • distance. You stop and ask her to wait, drop treats in front of her nose and hold her still until the other dog has passed. Keep your distance, 10 feet as a minimum, though we started with 'other side of the road'. I am at about 5 feet if I am lucky now, but I have to have got his atention before he keys into the other dog .

The kids love her, we always thought we were against the idea of re homing but this is getting out of hand. You can only step up and spend a month or so focussing on nothing but her needs, her behaviour and how to read it.

I guess - AIBU to consider rehoming options - for her happiness and ours. Or you can do a lot of looking for a very good next home.

You need to decide whether or not you can give her the next few months of your life, to undo the damage done and to work on reassuring her that you are in charge and she can and should trust you.

It's hard, time consuming and truly fucking irritating. But at her age you have done the worst bit, got through puppy teeth!

Best of luck no matter what you decide.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 12:14

And my apologies, I missed a couple of your posts and have repeated what others and you have said!

CellyBee · 19/05/2021 12:19

Dog Walker fay and/or doggy daycare. Sounds like a normal dog to me!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 12:20

@CellyBee

Dog Walker fay and/or doggy daycare. Sounds like a normal dog to me!
Now now! You can't go telling people that dogs reuire time, effort and consistency long passed the time you might think reasonable! Grin
sillysmiles · 19/05/2021 12:23

My dog is 2
So a teenager? Look at some of the teenage dog threads.

I bought her as a Cockerpoo with her dad being a toy poodle. She looks exactly like a large cocker spaniel and nothing like a cockerpoo
You realise that's because she's a mongrel (which there is nothing wrong with) but all bets are off as to what kind of dog you are getting.

She is so so strong that my kids can’t walk her. She has pulled my mother in law over and she spent 5 days in hospital.
What training have you done to stop her pulling? Usually a consistent turn and quick "let's go" when she pulls really knocks this behaviour on the head. But training needs to be consistent. Look at getting a front attached harness so that she she pulls it turns her around.

I work just 8 hours a week, so I have time to walk her. She needs an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening otherwise she will destroy our house. I was prepared to walk a dog every day - come rain or sun, but her needs are excessive.
Her needs are her needs, I had a 10 yr old lab, who is walked morning and evening too. I don't consider that in anyway excess.

she will poop on the house in protest
She's not doing it in protest. Dogs don't understand the concept of doing something to spite you. That may just be her limit that she can hold it. Maybe discuss with the behaviourist to see if she's is doing ti because of anxiety or if her feeding schedule means that by that time she really needs to go.

When let off the lead we have the exhaust her with a game of fetch otherwise she will not come back You need to think of her as a cocker, maybe look at scent games?

She scratches all our doors and destroys the kids toys if anything is left out. She is still young, but this to me sounds like she needs more mental stimulation.

She is not the dog I thought I was getting (relatively small) she is medium to large and just so unruly. If you wanted a small dog you should have bought a small dog, you got what you ordered really which was a surprise!
She is aggressive with other dogs This could be fear. It could be socialisation.

AIBU to consider rehoming options - for her happiness and ours

Yes and no. You are being unreasonable to expect the dog to be perfect and suit your idea of the perfect dog, when she's still young and learning. She intelligent and you need to work out how to harness that.
Look at a qualified behaviourist, not just someone who trains dogs. Because now you have issues to address.

You have what could be a perfect dog for your kids, active happy playful, once you get someone of the solvable issues under control.

UhtredRagnarson · 19/05/2021 12:23

She scratches all our doors and destroys the kids toys if anything is left out

Some dogs have a real fear of being shut in behind a door. Put stair gates on the rooms she will be kept on. You may find she is far more relaxed when she can still see the hall/room/you on the other side of it.

Fanacapan · 19/05/2021 12:25

@CuriousaboutSamphire

And my apologies, I missed a couple of your posts and have repeated what others and you have said!
This! What a fantastically helpful post! I use the ‘look’ command to distract my young dog when he’s about to lunge at another dog/person/leaf, not perfect but we’re getting there. I also recommend crate training, not least because if they can’t do anything naughty or unwanted you never have to tell them off or get frustrated, meaning you have a much better relationship overall.
Checkingout811 · 19/05/2021 12:26

Did her puppy training not cover recall? I agree with other posters that she shouldn’t be off the lead if she doesn’t have recall and isn’t good with other dogs.
I would get in touch with the breeder to check she has working lines. She sounds bored and 2 hours a day isn’t excessive exercise really.

Fanacapan · 19/05/2021 12:28

Sorry, I meant to quote Curious’ previous post! 🤦‍♀️

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 12:34

@Fanacapan I forgot the crate! Yes! No matter what others tell you ctrate training can be invaluable for dogs that, like mine are far too excited for their own good, or are in any way reactive.

Mine goes in when we are eating - we eat off lap trays and have never asked him to exercise self control whilst we ea. I do take him to cafes and have cofffee and a bun whilst he sits at my feet with a chew. That is going to have to be started all over again, isn't it? Smile

He also goes in if someone call round. He gets crated until he calms down and then might be let out to met the visitor, if they are agreeable. He usually manages to have 10 minutes of new company until he gets too excited and has to be popped back in his crate or into the garden, rinse and repeat!

And he sleeps in it. It is his space, has his toys in it.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 12:34

This is my over excited, toad Smile

To keep a ‘bad’ dog?
Foobydoo · 19/05/2021 12:36

@GoddessKali

I hear you..... I also have a dog that’s been very hard to train and is still on an going process.

I’ve found a local gun dog trainer whose method I’m doing and I’ll share below. (I’ve previously tried puppy classes, KC classes, behaviourist 121)

We use a training lead on her, use it high up just behind their ears.
Dog has to sit or down and stay in the same position working up to 30 mins inside the house.
Whenever they get up or move, just correct with a ‘no’ and if need be a gentle push on the bum to sit.
Do this every day at least twice a day, but more if possible for Max 30 mins at a time.
Then do this in the garden.
Then start taking them places to do sit and stays.

During this s whole training time never let them off the lead, keep on a long line if needed.

Does your dog walk to heel? If not then also do x2 30 min training walks where the dog has to walk to heel, no matter if you only go 20 yards in the half hour.

Doing both of these is what’s finally getting through to my very boisterous and dominant dog. It’s like she’s finally realising that she’s not allowed to do whatever she wants whenever she wants!

Because of this, she’s actually being so much better behaved and suddenly our relationship and bond is improving too. I don’t feel like I’m telling her off all the time now either!

@GoddessKali could you elaborate on this a little please? Do you keep the dog on a slip lead and have a treat ready and they need to sit/lie for ever increasing periods up to 30 mins? And they only get the treat when successful? Is this to work on impulse control? This could be worth a try with our 10 months old Labx collie who I am having issues with.

Sorry to derail op, I feel your pain.

TaraR2020 · 19/05/2021 12:37

I sympathise op because I've had a dog in the past who proved challenging to train and also suffered separation anxiety.

Which is what it is, she isn't being naughty.

If she has been bred from working cockers then yes, she's going to be more challenging but she's also half poodle. Poodles are the most intelligent of dogs and need a lot of mental stimulation, and can be very wilful. I wouldn't have a dog that was part toy poodle, theyvlre very different from standards.

You've had a lot of excellent advice here...behaviourist and proper trainers, such as those who work with working dogs. I would also look into agility classes as a way to help with that mental stimulation.

The separation anxiety you will need to treat separately as well, poor thing.

You'll get there. Consistency is the key with dogs like this. Dont let her off the lead until she's perfected her recall.

Fanacapan · 19/05/2021 12:37

This is mine!

To keep a ‘bad’ dog?
CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 12:43

Ooh! So pale and fluffy.

You'll notice mine is off lead and outside - yet close enough to pose for a picture after being in a mud hole Grin

That was a breakthough day - he came back of his own accord !!

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 19/05/2021 12:57

There is some great advice on this thread - deal with what sounds like separation anxiety, and get to a gundog trainer.

Honestly, it's not the amount of exercise that's the issue, it's the type. I have high-drive working line gundogs, and they rarely get two hours in a day, but they do get regular training sessions: even on an ordinary walk I'll throw in random stops, directions and recalls. As I think a PP said, a sit stay can tire them out, because the mental effort of not moving is exhausting.

I have known a gundog trainer take on a Vizsla and tell the owning to limit walks, down from 3 or 4 hours a day to a couple of 15 minute slots, but intersperse the day with regular brain work.

HeadsetHarpy · 19/05/2021 12:59

I think you have bought a working dog, not a pet dog, and it needs training and treating like a working dog. I am firmly of the belief that the word ‘cockerpoo’ should be banned - people expect something that looks like a fluffy teddy bear and are surprised and upset when they get a boisterous clever working dog crossbreed. Describing any dog with’-poo’ or ‘-doodle should also be banned. People need to understand the traits of both parents and be aware of what they could get before they buy one of these puppies.

I think the advice to take it to gun dog training is good advice in this case. Your dog needs rules and boundaries determined by its breeding.

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