To keep a ‘bad’ dog?

[2ndaryInfertilityage30]

I’m sure I will be slated, but hear me out.

My dog is 2 - she was not a lock down dog. I bought her as a Cockerpoo with her dad being a toy poodle. She looks exactly like a large cocker spaniel and nothing like a cockerpoo. She is so so strong that my kids can’t walk her. She has pulled my mother in law over and she spent 5 days in hospital. (This lady is pretty strong)

I work just 8 hours a week, so I have time to walk her. She needs an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening otherwise she will destroy our house. I was prepared to walk a dog every day - come rain or sun, but her needs are excessive.

If I leave her for so much as an hour she will poop on the house in protest. When let off the lead we have the exhaust her with a game of fetch otherwise she will not come back (we have invested a lot of time and money in training) we offer her roast chicken as a treat - she will only come back when she feels like it.

She scratches all our doors and destroys the kids toys if anything is left out.

She is not the dog I thought I was getting (relatively small) she is medium to large and just so unruly. She is aggressive with other dogs (never us and she is very sweet with the children)

The kids love her, we always thought we were against the idea of re homing but this is getting out of hand.

I guess - AIBU to consider rehoming options - for her happiness and ours.

My dog shakes with the excitement now when I take her out and make her sit and stay - but can see how amazing it’s been for her impulse control.

Last week we even put her in a shed with peasants in to do a sit and stay!

At home now her sit and stays are done with no lead and very little corrections so it can happen quickly and easily for some dogs especially if she’s a working breed.

Oh another thing - this level of concentration will tire them out too!

I consulted a behaviourist a while ago for an issue with one of my dogs, she said an overwhelming majority of her clients had cockerpoos, and the main issue in her opinion was that working line cockers were being used.

I think a behaviourist would be the way to go, the size and temperament of these cross breeds is very unpredictable. One of my dogs is a poodle cross from rescue and the “breeder” handed her in as an unsold puppy at 5 months old, she actually had 2 kinds of poodle and 2 other breeds when we had a DNA test so it is very possible there could be more breeds in yours than you realise.

I do feel for you, but two one-hour walks is hardly excessive.

What does she have to do when not on a walk? Considering she may well have been bred to be a working dog.

You have sadly fallen foul of the insanity that any fool can set up business and call themselves a trainer. There is no regulation as yet to the industry.
Some are very, very good but a huge percentage are terrible. A behaviourist will look holistically at the dogs entire life/history and pinpoint WHY it’s happening, not just address (badly by the sounds of it) the symptoms

Almost certainly your dog needs to work in some capacity. A working cocker only makes a good pet if it’s need to be mentally challenged is addressed alongside the physical. Walks are not enough, even if you do 5 hours a day! You just make them a fitter lunatic

She will be anxious,frustrated and confused as her needs aren’t being met. This manifests itself in behaviour issues. She is not being naughty deliberately

OP try the pet safe easy walk harness for walking. It is a front clipping martingale harness. Should help with pulling BUT you must heel train too. Not optional in your case.

You haven’t been mis-sold. Cockerpoos are not a breed. You have a dog of mixed parentage which has dominant cocker.

LLWK has written a good post. As has undisclosed location.

I’ve had so called bad dogs. Rescues. They weren’t. They needed time, training, consistency and love. And like humans, they are all different with their own foibles.

Some things you have to manage in order to make them feel secure. One was horrifically starved and beaten. That took a long time but she became the best Dog in the world to me.

I hope your dog gets what she needs and deserves.

The saying goes "there's no such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners". Harsh but true. Have you had her since a puppy? Is she your first dog.

"I bought her as a Cockerpoo with her dad being a toy poodle. She looks exactly like a large cocker spaniel and nothing like a cockerpoo. She is so so strong that my kids can’t walk her. She has pulled my mother in law over and she spent 5 days in hospital. (This lady is pretty strong)"

Most Cockapoos look like curly version of a cocker spaniel to me, usually they are slightly smaller, but I'd still say they are a medium size dog rather than a small one. Where did you get her from? Did you see the dad if you bought her as a puppy? Though there's no guarantee about sizes when you mix dog breeds. All dogs pull on the lead if not trained not to do it, and if they are wearing a harness (not against them at all!) then they will have the full power of their weight, and even smaller dogs will be able to pull people over if they are slightly unsteady for a second.

"If I leave her for so much as an hour she will poop on the house in protest. She scratches all our doors and destroys the kids toys if anything is left out."

Sounds like she has separation anxiety. How old was she when you got her? Did you practice leaving her for small periods of time and stretching it out to longer? Think there will be lots of dogs struggling with separation anxiety now that their owners aren't around as much as they were in lockdown.

"She is aggressive with other dogs (never us and she is very sweet with the children)"

Is this recent? Was she socialised much with other dogs when we was a puppy?

"When let off the lead we have the exhaust her with a game of fetch otherwise she will not come back"

If she's aggressive with other dogs and has unreliable recall, you shouldn't let her off the lead.

I’m always reluctant to recommend YouTube trainers but I’ve had brilliant results using the techniques advised by kaelin munkelwitz.

This is really promising. It’s actually what we would love to happen. Just after 2 year we feel a bit done. I do think this is worth a shot though and I will investigate today.

Just be aware that any fool can also call themselves a behaviourist. You need a QUALIFIED behaviourist.
Your vet may be a good starting point for a recommendation

I would rehome her.
I had a dog like this and stuck with it. It took 8 yrs. There was alot of sweat and tear along the way. It's still not perfect and she will always be a nuisance in several respects.

Don't spend a fortune of your money and time on training etc unless you and the whole family are really wanting to put in the hard hours and the strict routine required.

Find her a new suitable home and take time and advice to find yourself a dog that suits your lifestyle and family.

Lots of questions.

She was 12 weeks when we got her. Met mum and dad dogs.

She does always pull in the lead. She will suddenly dart at something and it can pull your arms off.

I would be surprised at separation anxiety as she is very confident but perhaps. I can’t read her mind. I wish I could.

She went to lots of puppy clubs in her first year and was out almost daily with 2 puppy friends. We have recently relocated and this is where the aggression issues have started.

The ‘experts’ all seem to do the same thing which is give a command and offer her a great if she does it (doesn’t seem like rocket science) and it’s what we have always done but she seems to be bright enough that she will pick and choose.

I wonder how seriously you took the training and how consistently you applied it if your take away is that's it doesn't seem like rocket science. Dogs are bright, it isn't that your dog is picking and choosing, it's that you are not implementing the training in a way which motivates her to obey. I think you need to find a trainer who will explain how the methods they are using are supposed to work. Training isn't rocket science but neither is it a simple matter of issuing commands and rewarding obedience, there are basics which are the building blocks of effective training, the first of which is the ability to focus your dogs attention on you.

@FOJN

The ‘experts’ all seem to do the same thing which is give a command and offer her a great if she does it (doesn’t seem like rocket science) and it’s what we have always done but she seems to be bright enough that she will pick and choose.

I wonder how seriously you took the training and how consistently you applied it if your take away is that's it doesn't seem like rocket science. Dogs are bright, it isn't that your dog is picking and choosing, it's that you are not implementing the training in a way which motivates her to obey. I think you need to find a trainer who will explain how the methods they are using are supposed to work. Training isn't rocket science but neither is it a simple matter of issuing commands and rewarding obedience, there are basics which are the building blocks of effective training, the first of which is the ability to focus your dogs attention on you.

Very much this

Very good point and perhaps exactly why we’ve had little success. We’ve followed the advice we have been given - consistently. We wanted the benefits. They never came. I think we need a proper behaviourist.

Just a positive story to share PIL afford a dig that turned out to be unpredictable and aggressive, what they thought was a lovely honest local charity had re-homed him five times. They are experienced dog owners so decided they would persevere, this was before we had DS so no children visited the house. It took months and they worked with a good behaviourist recommended by the vet, it got to the point he could be hand fed and you could actually stroke him. The first time we stayed over her attacked DH who was able to jump up on the kitchen island without being harmed so that was huge. He would also sit on there laps of PIL. They still kept him on a lead when walking, didn't let strangers approached him , you would never leave a child with him and they had a routine he was comfortable with. He was with them until he died and had a happy life. He died from a brain aneurysm and had a growth in his brain the vet said may have contributed to his behaviour. If a good behaviourist and lots of time and patience can work on a dog who probably should've been put down, I think there's hope for yours.

If it's a working dog, she needs someone who recognises and trains her like a working dog.
We had three trainers. The first one was a complete disaster. She waltzed into our house with paper sheets full of "alpha training" - no access upstairs, no sofa, never being lower than your dog etc.. No connection with the puppy whatsoever. Then she said our dog was untrainable because she was fed raw and that's like trying to feed the dog Skittles as treats when she's fed chocolate cake on a regular basis.
The second one was great at calming us down, basic training and giving us tips and hints.
Now we have a trainer who trains working dogs for protection and agility and he's fantastic as a next step in training.
We still have a way to go - our dog is extremely high drive, very smart so she can't be trained with repetitions only, needs to see some purpose and change.
I know this post isn't about me or our dog, just trying to explain that it's important to get a dog who knows the breed and can adjust the training accordingly.

*adopted a dog

It doesn’t sound like her needs are being met. That’s not entirely your fault but it sounds like she needs a lot more exercise (mental and physical) and also has separation anxiety. You say she’s not the dog you thought you were getting but the point is NOBODY knows what they are getting, and even more so with a crossbreed. My beloved dog isn’t the same as the previous 3 I had of the same breed, well he is now but it has taken years of money and effort to get the wonderful creature he is today.
You can either find a properly qualified behaviourist and try again with the training or rehome (preferably via a reputable charity) The separation anxiety is going to be especially hard to tackle and you can’t let her off her lead in the meantime.

If you do decide to rehome, can I recommend Spaniel aid. We’ve had dealings and they are a good rescue

No we haven’t tried a behaviourist, just people that claims to be training ‘experts.’ The ‘experts’ all seem to do the same thing which is give a command and offer her a great if she does it

You need a trainer who understands working dogs with high drives. they dont care about treats, not even high value ones - there is no foodstuff to enticing that its more interesting than work.

If I leave her for so much as an hour she will poop on the house in protest.
No, dogs dont do that. They mess out of anxiety of being left.
You need a house training program (take her to her toilet spot on the lead once an hour, reward her when she uses it), and you need to always reward her for pooping on the right spot and always act calmly when you find mess in the wrong place.

If she messes when left and destroys things, she is well on the way to getting separation anxiety. You must never punish her when you get home, no matter how bad the damage.

Dogs can develop separation anxiety at any age.

Does she toilet when you are in the house or just when left? Could the change of home have meant that the separation anxiety has started due to that? A spell of people being around (and with lockdown, that is realistically most of her life with you ) and then being left again can often cause the problem to start. Just a few things your behaviourist will consider along with many others

In the nicest possible way, you don’t sound at all experienced and have had crap help so far, so I doubt if you are able to discern confidence in her one way or the other.
Dog aggressive, manic and destructive are not phrases that say settled, confident dog to any decent trainer tbh. Dogs often ‘stress up’ and become manic when out of their depth. Many people will read this as ‘excited’ but that couldn’t usually be further from the truth

I agree, she is a working dog,she needs a new focus and a job to do She doesn't sound food orientated.
You have a mix of two very intelligent dogs
I agree with a good qualified behaviourist and some agility training, Get your children involved too. Its not just about training the dog it's about training the owners
I hope you make a break through and have years of fun with her

"I took 4 months off work and spent every day training her. We got nowhere. So no. I did not just spend money, I invested a lot of time as I said."

If she was used to you being around all the time for 4 months and then you were suddenly gone, that is probably why she is destructive at being left. Separation anxiety is very common in spaniels (don't know about poodles), and even if you worked hard on it when she was a puppy, if she has been used to you being around recently and then you are suddenly gone, a lot of previously calm seeming dogs would develop separation anxiety from that.

If she is is half working cocker spaniel then she has literally been bred to work all day. I love all cockers, but working cockers are very different to show cockers. Show cockers still need lots of exercise and mental stimulation: two one hour walks a day wouldn't tire one out completely, but working cockers need as least twice as much. They need to work and I don't think they should be bred as a family dog, it's not fair on them.

I've found other dog walkers we've got to know have been helpful with proper recommendations (because we are inundated with dog 'trainers' around here). Also vets, and any reliable dog daycare places may have connections. We used a Victoria Stilwell trained one.

My friend had a very high energy boisterous dog, and she sent her away for training for two weeks at a training camp, and has had really good results. Def try some of the brain training though, even easy games like go find where you've hid loads of little treats around the garden and house at different levels and under things for her to sniff out. Lots of praise.