‘With science I can have a baby whenever I want’’

[Laughingstock91]

Naomi Campbell had had a baby at 50 - not sure if she’s given birth or it’s a surrogate but her comments really irritated me. She said ‘with science I can have a baby whenever I want’ - do people actually think about the baby? I am sure she’ll be a lovely mum but it makes having a baby just sound like something to tick off on a list when you have decided you have had enough of everything else no matter what age you are. Maybe I am being harsh but if it’s that easy with science, why wait until you are 50?

Aibu?

The couple didn't want a disabled baby, only a healthy one. Stateless baby now. Not American, not Ukrainian. There are some seriously sick individuals out there.

@HarrisMcCoo

Suzi888 you can watch the documentary on YouTube. I was upset watching it. Incredibly sad to think she has been abandoned. Unwanted by her own biological parents.

I can think of at least two other couples that have done this in the media recently. I wonder how many go in reported

@Sparklingbrook

MNHQ are probably rolling their eyes at having round two of all this after yesterday's thread was deleted.

I rolled my eyes when I saw that they had deleted the first thread at the request of the OP. I can see if somebody starts a thread about something personal and gets hurtful responses they might want the thread deleted, but if someone starts a thread about a topic of general interest and the replies don't go the way they wanted, is that really grounds for deletion?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g I only saw page one and the deletions had started already. It must have been virtually impossible to read by the time it got deleted. That’s usually why they go because there’s so many deletions.

I found I had the thread open in a different tab this morning. There were deletions, but it was still mostly there. Anyway, that ship has sailed.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I found I had the thread open in a different tab this morning. There were deletions, but it was still mostly there. Anyway, that ship has sailed.

Yes we now have this lovely thread.

I watched a similar documentary that mentions Brigid a Doctor interviewed said there was definitely more cases of abandonment.
The disabled DC of Ukraine are institutionalised.
The orphanage documentary is very sad all the DC head-rocking.

Well she's not wrong is she , she's proved that to be true .
The moral implications are something different entirely. She's rich , independent and looks in amazing health for her age so I suspect many people are envious not to be in her position.

The technology is there and its not illegal , so why shouldn't she use it 🤔

In the past, life expectancy was mid 60s. Now it's something like late 80s. The difference in health and mobility amongst the older population varies enormously. We have changed. Let's stop judging others fir their choices. Is a fit, healthy, financially stable 50 something with time to parent any more selfish or wrong than a pre 20, single, not healthy, financially illiterate person? It's about more than age. She'll be fine.

@Exhausted4ever

Yanbu. There comes a point when it's just not fair on the kids. I mean at 75/80 she might require a lot of support and care at which point her kids barely finished uni and began adulthood

We now on average live 20 odd years more than we did mid 20th century. No one thought it was wrong to have babies in their late 30s back then. Stop judging based on your personal experience. I fir one am waaaaay healthier and financially stable in my early 50s than in my early 30s. Will I have more dc? HELL NO!! But I'm not going to tell other women what they can and can't do.

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

Well she's not wrong is she , she's proved that to be true . The moral implications are something different entirely. She's rich , independent and looks in amazing health for her age so I suspect many people are envious not to be in her position. The technology is there and its not illegal , so why shouldn't she use it 🤔

The technology for cloning is also there, but I doubt many people think that would be a good idea. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should (as others have said on this and similar threads).

There is a dangerous obsession with people having the ‘right’ to have children- nobody has the ‘right’ to be a parent , nobody has the ‘right’ to have a child.

Babies are not commodities, and women’s bodies should not be for rent. Do we see rich women having babies for other people?
Of course we don’t, wonder why that is ?

@parsnipsnotsprouts

It does sound a bit like she’s got bored of every other life experience and thought she’d give motherhood a whirl. That added to the dubious ethical implications of surrogacy makes this a bit

Honestly though isn't this why a lot of people have children? I think people are in denial for their reasons for wanting them.

If you were really content and felt there was nothing missing in your life - why bother with children?

If she has carried the baby herself using her own egg, or adopted a baby that couldn't be looked after by its own parents, then that is wonderful.

If she has exploited two poor women in order to purchase their child then I think that is morally wrong.

I don't agree with altruistic surrogacy either - the risks to the birth mother are too great. Nobody should ask a woman to do that for them. If she has her own children already then her first duty is to them and she should not put her life at risk to create a child for another woman.

When Elton John and his partner had their children nobody turned a hair. They presumably used a surrogate.

Yes they did, twice.

People did turn a hair and I think it's safe to say a lot of the criticism at the time was based on homophobia rather than 'use of a surrogate'.

The Drewit Barlows are meant to be the first same-sex male couple who 'used' a surrogate mother, promising her life long friendship and then dumping her about two weeks after she had twins for them and they were back in the U.K. Their background continues to prove quite interesting including who is suing them and why and their businesses (or rather the business they are not allowed to have in the U.K.).

For commercial surrogacy to operate successfully for want to be parents it requires a steady stream of host mothers (surrogates). So basically you're establishing an industry in which the means of production are women's bodies

I think it is COTS as well as new agencies like My Surrogacy Journey that are encouraging women to sign up for surrogate motherhood as they need the 'stock'. Though illegal to advertise in the U.K. I see a lot of adverts on Facebook for U.K. based businesses because the algorithms see my comments here I suppose.

The technology is there and its not illegal , so why shouldn't she use it

Because of the ethical issues presented as we are discussing.

It's costly so it's mostly only available to the wealthy - hence we regularly read stories about celebs using surrogate mothers

Actually more and more of your average infertile or same same male couples are in the news for having acquired a baby through surrogacy and there are moves to have the 'expenses' paid for by the NHS.

See from 9mins in

Somebody reassure me that even in poorly regulated countries a woman can't walk into a fertility clinic/surrogacy service and order a baby made with the egg of one complete stranger and the womb of another? The purchaser would have no genetic connection to the child at all, so how could she have any right to her?

This is where biology comes in. Far easier for a male to commission a baby to whom he has a genetic connection, as all he has to do is provide a sperm sample.

In the case of a single woman, if she does indeed have a genetic connection, she has to have her eggs harvested, probably years earlier if she's putting it off for career-related reasons, and then either the eggs are frozen or an embryo is created with donor sperm and frozen. As @OhHolyJesus has pointed out, success rates for IVF in a surrogate pregnancy using either technique are low.

You ladies are funny. She’s a supermodel. She has a career and she put her career first.
I thought this was encouraged here! Now she has decided she wants a family.

She is 50, a multi millionaire and from what I know of her, takes amazing care of herself. I had an aunt get pregnant at 52 naturally. It does happen. And even if it didn’t, she has the money and resources to take care of the child.

I know people who have older siblings with parents in their 70s. It’s actually very normal.

I’m sick of women judging career women, judging stay at home moms. We can’t seem
to let women do what’s best for them. Feminism definitely hasn’t helped if women are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

Just be happy that a child has a loving home.

18/05/2021 22:34 LadyEggs

Well, good luck to her. She's going to be knackered“

Wouldn’t have thought so, expect there’ll be staff.

Somebody reassure me that even in poorly regulated countries a woman can't walk into a fertility clinic/surrogacy service and order a baby made with the egg of one complete stranger and the womb of another? The purchaser would have no genetic connection to the child at all, so how could she have any right to her?

Sorry, can't reassure you. You absolutely can do that. In fact it is encouraged.

I’m sick of women judging career women, judging stay at home moms. We can’t seem
to let women do what’s best for them. Feminism definitely hasn’t helped if women are damned if they do, damned if they don’t
I don't consider women exploiting other women so they can have a baby to be feminist.
What exactly is feminist about renting a womb and buying a baby?

First off we don’t even know if she had a surrogate. She could have adopted this baby.. or maybe she was pregnant. We don’t know.

It’s not feminist to judge another woman for her life choices. Would I be a surrogate? No.. but I believe women have the right to make their own choices.

At the end of the day, one of the best pieces of advice I was ever given was to mind my own business. It’s not really anyone’s business what anyone else does. I don’t really care if women do IVF (by your rules exploiting women as sometimes donated eggs are used or eggs are harvested from other women, and sometimes donated sperm is used).

It’s always women judging women by an arbitrary metric of what feminism is and what makes someone a “good feminist”... And it seems to never be good enough. So damned if you do, damned if you don’t.. so women need to do what works for them.

Anyway.. A child is in a loving home. We can agree that there nothing negative with that. However the child came to exist, she’s here now. So we can send mommy and baby well wishes and mind our own business and ensure we are living our own best lives.

@PaperbackRider

Somebody reassure me that even in poorly regulated countries a woman can't walk into a fertility clinic/surrogacy service and order a baby made with the egg of one complete stranger and the womb of another? The purchaser would have no genetic connection to the child at all, so how could she have any right to her?

Sorry, can't reassure you. You absolutely can do that. In fact it is encouraged.

Bloody hell. How is that different to buying a baby from a complete stranger?

@MarshmallowSwede

First off we don’t even know if she had a surrogate. She could have adopted this baby.. or maybe she was pregnant. We don’t know.

It’s not feminist to judge another woman for her life choices. Would I be a surrogate? No.. but I believe women have the right to make their own choices.

At the end of the day, one of the best pieces of advice I was ever given was to mind my own business. It’s not really anyone’s business what anyone else does. I don’t really care if women do IVF (by your rules exploiting women as sometimes donated eggs are used or eggs are harvested from other women, and sometimes donated sperm is used).

It’s always women judging women by an arbitrary metric of what feminism is and what makes someone a “good feminist”... And it seems to never be good enough. So damned if you do, damned if you don’t.. so women need to do what works for them.

Anyway.. A child is in a loving home. We can agree that there nothing negative with that. However the child came to exist, she’s here now. So we can send mommy and baby well wishes and mind our own business and ensure we are living our own best lives.

We do know. And it IS feminist to question the exploitation of womens bodies for gain.

Did you notice you told us all we were un feminist and then you complained about women judging other women for their feminism? Don't see the irony there?

Bloody hell. How is that different to buying a baby from a complete stranger?

It's not. That is what much commercial surrogacy is, buying a baby from a complete stranger.