To think it’s so wrong that if you have money you can jump NHS waiting lists?

[ImaHogg]

I have some gynae issues. I had a scan in September 2020 and a telephone consultation with a gynaecologist. I was told that I need a hysteroscopy with a biopsy and to remove some polyps.
Obviously due to Covid I, alongside so many others am now on a waiting list. I (and my gp) have chased many times but just get told they have absolutely no idea when my procedure will be.
I am getting problems from the issues I have and have had enough so rang my local private hospital to ask if they do this procedure (can not really afford to go private but I am getting desperate and wanted to know how much it may be). I was told they don’t do this procedure at this hospital but there may be an ‘alternative’! They would talk to the gynaecologist and get back to me.
They rung back to say they had spoken with the gynaecologist and he would be happy for me to have a consultation at the private hospital (£150) then I would need an ultra sound scan (I would have to have this done at the private hospital even though I have a copy of the NHS one from September, same gynaecologist), then he would be able to do the hysteroscopy but at my local NHS hospital - wtf!!
So basically for a fee of £2000 I can skip the NHS waiting list, skip the luxury surroundings of the private hospital and have the same procedure at the same NHS hospital that I have currently been on a 8 month waiting list.
So if you have money you can push back NHS waiting lists even further by flashing the cash!

If you can afford private health care and are in pain or suffering why would you put up with pain? Such backwards thinking to health care in this country.

@Hairyfairy01

Going private does not shorten the waiting list for others. It merely takes away that consultant / surgeon etc from his / her NHS caseload 'days' creating a two tier society of those that can afford healthcare and those who can't. Go private by all means, but don't think you are doing it for the greater good.

I disagree. What a surgeon or doctor does outside of their contracted hours is their own business, surely?! If they want to work every evening and weekend, that’s their choice.

You will not jump the NHS waiting list. You will just join it sooner.

This is a bit 'war is peace' isn't it?

I think it's morally wrong for the richer to get better healthcare, but a consequence of people not wanting to fund the NHS more.

Not sure it shortens waiting lists to be honest. I was in similar situation, and went private, but the op was with the same consultant, same hospital, but done months earlier because I paid. Therefore it makes sense to suggest that he could have done the op sooner if private but not nhs, so is basically pushing nhs patients down the list.

@Hypie

I cancelled a “private” patient last Friday as a more urgent patient came in through A&E.

He was furious, hurled a load of abuse at me and asked me what the point in him paying 3k to the consultant was. Well if he hadn’t paid the 3k he’d have still been waiting for the initial diagnostics, doesn’t mean he’ll get operated on earlier. I’m not going to lie, I have no issue cancelling the private patients and I’m happy to do it for other members of staff. They are consistently entitled and rude and think they can buy their way to the top of the list. Well they can’t.

For someone who claims to work in this area, you don't seem to understand either how it works or OPs post. They are paying to have the op privately, but on NHS premises. The staff allocated to that procedure will not be doing NHS work that day, so you would have zero authority to cancel their procedure. If you mean people that pay to have initial tests and are added to the list sooner, then that's different. However, you can't tell me that no one else gets frustrated when they turn up to the hospital, wait around, and then get turned away.

My husband ended up going private for cancer treatment. He had some symptoms, had a non invasive test which showed cause for concern and gp referred him to the hospital. Heard nothing for weeks, so he returned to gp, now with pain. Turned out the hospital had triaged him to the bottom of pile by mistake. As we had private health insurance it then became a race as to who got their act together first. Bupa won.

He then had over 10 years of treatment in two local private hospitals by probably the same consultant as he would have had at the NHS hospital. He didn't take the consultant away from a non paying patient. The consultant had NHS hours and private hours. He did free up a place for a NHS patient.

I've had private treatment in an NHS hospital. Had a private room and also didn't jump any queues.

@ImaHogg

For clarification, I enquired at the private hospital as that is where I thought I would have the procedure, I never thought for a second it would be at an NHS hospital. Surely if I were to pay privately and then go to my local NHS hospital that is taking the time slot of someone who could be an NHS patient?

No that isn't the case. The NHS derives income from, effectively, renting out its facilities to the private sector. Many private hospitals don't have the range of facilities, and the NHS doesn't use all its facilities all of the time because it has neither the staffing nor the resources to do so. So actually, by buying this resource from the NHS you are subsidising the treatment of people who cannot afford to go private.

What's the alternative? Make private health care illegal?

No one should be obliged to use the NHS.

If it doesn't work, that's a separate issue but the problem is not people who choose to go private, it's a far bigger issue. The consultants are raking it in though

I wasn't happy with my treatment plan on the NHS so I paid to see a consultant privately £200.
The consultant believed I should have been treated differently and quicker than the NHS were willing to treat me and she decided to put me on her NHS patient list and give me treatment almost immediately (gynecology issues)
She also wrote to my previous NHS consultant and as a result my care plan was changed. He didn't listen to me but listened to a fellow consultant.
If I hadn't been able to pay that £200 I don't know where I'd be now.

People are often advised to do this on Mumsnet. Pay for an initial consultation privately and then get out on a Consultants NHS list for the procedure.

I think most Consultants who do this would say they aren’t jumping the wait list for a procedure. The procedure list is entirely separate to the list for initial consultation/tests etc. Should they say, “well you do need an operation, but it would have taken you a year to get to this point in the nhs so I won’t put you on my list for a year?

If you've had no joy by contacting the department directly go via PALS. They will have to tell you roughly how long the wait will be.

Also, gynae waiting times are shocking because of underfunding. Please don't take potshots at women who have to scrape the cash together to access care however they can.

The best £150 I spent was seeing the private GP who diagnosed my depression. For years I was fobbed off with my NHS GP, being told there was nothing wrong with me after a 10 minute consultation.
I was desperate. She listened to me for an hour and diagnosed me. She changed my life. The best £150 I’ve ever spent.

Some people on here do not understsnd how either the NHS or private health care works.

I’ve also had an NHS surgery in a private hospital when waiting lists were too long and they were forced to outsource them.

Out of all the surgeries I’ve had it was by far the worst - care in recovery was really poor (I was written up for specific meds in specific high doses due to tolerance, which the anaesthetist fully understood but the nurse refused to give), ended up discharging myself early as I could manage my pain at home more effectively, and it’s the only surgery I’ve had where my wounds got infected and needed treatment.

Private hospitals are not necessarily better!

Consultants, surgeons, doctors etc all train for many long hard years for their skills so I don’t begrudge any of them doing private work.
Private medical care has been around for ages, it takes some of the burden off the NHS and those that want to use it can. No different to private education, dentistry etc.

It’s fair enough as the consultant must pay a fee for renting the equipment-operating room-etc at the hospital plus his fees and other staff fees. If I had enough money I’d pay for my two knee replacements I’v been waiting over a year for- he could do it in the car park as far as I’m concerned 😂

It massively depends on area

I was referred to gynae in March - already had hysteroscopy and biopsy a week or so ago - but haven't had the scan yet as thats what has the longer waiting list here

YABU. Everyone who goes privately means one less on the NHS waiting list.

My Mum just went privately for her 2nd cataract op with a surgeon she knows and trusts. The 1st op (on the NHS) was a disaster because they left it so long. Her lense shattered when they tried to remove it. Then she had to wait for a second op for another 6 months, only for them to put the new lense in crooked. No way was she going to wait that long for her second. If she'd waited, she would be blind.

@Minezatea

I think it's morally wrong for the richer to get better healthcare, but a consequence of people not wanting to fund the NHS more.

That's a nice sentiment, but are you really suggesting that everyone should have the same amount of money as everyone else. Because those who are better off generally get better everything. It's not fair, but life isn't. I'm a staunch supporter of NHS provision. I want to see it better funded and resourced. I want to see it have the best treatment in the world, as it once did. I put in effort to create that. I also have private health insurance, because I can afford it, and commitment to the NHS does not mean that I should go without treatment I need in solidarity with those who can't afford it.

As others have said you are not jumping the NHS queue you are paying to have it done privately which is a completely different thing!

The NHS is not fit for purpose OP. It's a huge lumbering bureaucracy that isn't very flexible and is hard to change. The amount of money wasted is huge and we would be much better served by a hybrid system like many on offer in Europe. BUT as soon as anyone talks about changing the NHS everyone gets up in arms and says we can't change it because it is free at the point of delivery and we don't want to be like the USA (never mind how much it lets some people down). Anyway I'm sure I will be shot down but after 20+ years in healthcare I feel I am entitled to my opinion

^ this completely.

I don't think people realise how much private treatment takes place at NHS facilities. Its very common. I work in the industry, NHS hospitals often have private wings or do private treatment paid for by insurers or the patient. Private facilities don't always have the equipment available or backup services needed. The NHS make money from this.

I read it that the OP is staying as a private patient but having the surgery at an NHS facility rather than a private one. Not that she is being treated as an NHS patient.

That's a nice sentiment, but are you really suggesting that everyone should have the same amount of money as everyone else. Because those who are better off generally get better everything. It's not fair, but life isn't. I'm a staunch supporter of NHS provision. I want to see it better funded and resourced. I want to see it have the best treatment in the world, as it once did. I put in effort to create that. I also have private health insurance, because I can afford it, and commitment to the NHS does not mean that I should go without treatment I need in solidarity with those who can't afford it.

No, just that NHS should be better funded. You're agreeing with me really. I don't think rich people should throw their lot in with NHS patients as that would be a race to the bottom and I'm not sure would change things. I'm not too worried about private people getting nicer environments, single rooms, posh food. Just that getting much more timely care does not feel OK but will continue to happen whilst NHS is underfunded.