To not know what to do with DD12 please help

[Cocopogo]

DD12 behaviour is getting worse. I’ve tried hard discipline and I’ve tried love bombing type approach but nothing seems to be helping.
Their doesn’t seem to be any sanctions that she cares about much and once it’s gone and she’s had a tantrum about it it seems to be forgotten and the behaviour continues.
The worst behaviour is the taking food. She will eat EVERYTHING in the house (she’s now overweight) I don’t just mean junk food, I don’t buy it because she’ll just eat it. I mean everything. She’ll go in bread bag and take 5 slices of dry bread, she’ll eat a full box of cereal, she’ll eat all the yogurts out the fridge, she’ll open random tins in the cupboard and eat it. She’ll stick frozen fish fingers in the microwave for 5 mins and then eat it. All these behaviours happen when I’m out the house or very early in the morning. I’ve even considered putting a lock on the kitchen door but that isn’t teaching her control is it. Yesterday she ate all her siblings birthday chocolate.
I don’t even know how to put boundaries in as she has no phone now, she no longer goes to dance lessons she used to love, singing lessons she used to love, a youth club, watch tv, most of her toys have gone and none of these sanctions seem to have helped.
Other behaviours are that she doesn’t look after herself. Matted hair, doesn’t wipe after the toilet, needs telling every single day to brush her teeth, her room is very untidy and I end up having to sort is as it becomes a health hazard.
Please help, I don’t know where to start.

[Winkywonkydonkey]

What's her sleep like? My DD goes a bit like this and even half an hour more sleep dramatically changed her entire behaviour.

[bumblingbovine49]

@Cocopogo

DD12 behaviour is getting worse. I’ve tried hard discipline and I’ve tried love bombing type approach but nothing seems to be helping.
Their doesn’t seem to be any sanctions that she cares about much and once it’s gone and she’s had a tantrum about it it seems to be forgotten and the behaviour continues.
The worst behaviour is the taking food. She will eat EVERYTHING in the house (she’s now overweight) I don’t just mean junk food, I don’t buy it because she’ll just eat it. I mean everything. She’ll go in bread bag and take 5 slices of dry bread, she’ll eat a full box of cereal, she’ll eat all the yogurts out the fridge, she’ll open random tins in the cupboard and eat it. She’ll stick frozen fish fingers in the microwave for 5 mins and then eat it. All these behaviours happen when I’m out the house or very early in the morning. I’ve even considered putting a lock on the kitchen door but that isn’t teaching her control is it. Yesterday she ate all her siblings birthday chocolate.
I don’t even know how to put boundaries in as she has no phone now, she no longer goes to dance lessons she used to love, singing lessons she used to love, a youth club, watch tv, most of her toys have gone and none of these sanctions seem to have helped.
Other behaviours are that she doesn’t look after herself. Matted hair, doesn’t wipe after the toilet, needs telling every single day to brush her teeth, her room is very untidy and I end up having to sort is as it becomes a health hazard.
Please help, I don’t know where to start.

If this behaviour is quite new, is it possible something traumatic happened to her that you may not be aware of ?

There has been quite a bit of research that connects eating disorders ( particularly compulsive overeating) with trauma when young. She needs specialist help with the eating disorder but it is very difficult to.come by on the NHS . Is private treatment an option ? I'd see your GP anyway to get a CAMHS referral. Be prepared for.a very long wait but it is worth at least starting the process now anyway before things get much worse . If you can afford private therapy , you could try that while you wait for CAMHS

I am sorry you are dealing with this, it Is a really difficult situation and help for children and teenage mental problems is very hard to come by. We are also dealing with mental health issues for DS and CAMHS is shite here .

DS is doing better than a year ago at the moment but only because we we went private and he was prescribed medication which has helped

[BrumBoo]

OP, you've not failed, you have tried to help your daughter and are seeking support.

Trying sanctions is not a failure, but the OP has definitely crossed the line both in denying her basic needs and most certainly in hitting her. Quite honestly, I think the op is getting fair feedback considering this is AIBU. There seems to be a level of denial about the daughter's issues and a sense that the op doesn't want to think it's mental health or autism related therefore hasn't adequately pushed the right people about it. A school cannot diagnosis these issues, especially if she's only been there a year or so with lockdown wiping most of that out. Autistic girls start presenting more as they reach puberty, so it may easily have been missed in Primary.

My eldest would never had a referral if I hadn't been on the case of about 3 different agencies at the same time, as they all saw different things during short assessments. Collectively, there is a pattern for ASD. Separately I've been told that it's probably not autism, maybe only SPD, and 'quite likely on the spectrum'. It's exhausting but that's why every assessment counts, not just giving up after 'I'm sure it's just a phase' in one 10 minute appointment.

[Cocopogo]

@Rainbow321 we sit and chat all the time, every day after school we chat about her day, we chat about what she’d like to do that evening/weekend etc, we play games, make meal plans, we do chat about behaviours and how I can help e.g I bought her her own wash basket she chose for her room (she didn’t use it much). She has lots of toys, she likes games, dolls, she has lots of soft toys that she gets very attached to and would be devastated to lose so I tried them as a sanction but quickly realised it wasn’t enough to motivate her to tidy up, stay in bed later or whatever I was asking but taking it away would be more damaging so I don’t use that. She does like drawing and doodling lots too. She liked her CD player but became a bit too focused on the news on the radio so she no longer has that due to a sanction.

[Cocopogo]

@Winkywonkydonkey she sleeps anytime between 8 and 6am ish. She goes to bed between 7:30-8pm and sings herself to sleep, sometime in 10 mins sometimes, she can get up a few times “thirsty” “don’t feel well” etc and it can be 10 or 11pm. She’s always up early though. In summer between 5-7am

[AfternoonToffee]

OP sometimes it is ok to hold your hands up and acknowledge you were wrong. Take today to get her room sorted with her and get her stuff back in. Then tackle the other stuff tomorrow.

[WeatherwaxOn]

Mental health issues in females seem to be more difficult to diagnose, or take longer to be picked up, but the behaviour you describe is not neurotypical, in my opinion.
Could be ADD (which a friend of mine, now early 50s has been waiting 3 years for a full assessment/diagnosis), could be a firm of PDA (pathological demand avoidance), or something similar.
These conditions 'go with' autism, but not necessarily always.

GP should be your first point of call, I think, but maybe try MIND or any local autism advocates you may have locally.
Your daughter's school don't sound as though they are very up to date on their information or training in neurodiversity.

[hardboiledeggs]

I think your DD needs to see a doctor, if this was an adult I’d say they were very depressed. It doesn’t seem like a behavioural issue more mental. Get on to the GP ASAP.

[wheresmymojo]

Almost everyone on the thread, including a couple with professional or personal experience, are saying this is a mental health issue.

Yet you don't seem to be taking that very seriously and your posts continue to fixate on her behaviour?

I don't understand that...

There is something very seriously wrong with her mental health, you don't seem to be very concerned about that or the likelihood that she is in a very distressed mental state internally?

I used to chat to my DM every day, she still had no idea that I had severe depression or that I tried to hang my self with my school tie at the same age your daughter is now.

My parents also took the same approach that you've taken so far....it eventually turned out that I have bipolar disorder and binge eating disorder.

What is the story with her father? Is he around?
If not, what was he like? Could there be genetic MH issues from that side?

Equally though...you wrote off MH issues as "no MH issues in family". Many are not genetic. If she has had some kind of trauma (and rejection from a parent would count here if father isn't around) that can cause MH issues in any child irrespective of genetics.

[MishMashMummy]

The thing that stands out to me is that you’re treating her like she’s much younger than she is. A child of 12 shouldn’t need to stay in her room until you get her, shouldn’t have you picking her clothes, shouldn’t be going to bed at 7:30, shouldn’t be needing your help to get a drink in the night etc.

What isn’t clear is whether this infantilising is coming from you, and that she’s acting out because she’s frustrated by it, or whether you’re infantilising her because you think her behaviour requires it. So I agree you should be going to the GP as the first port of call to rule out depression or anxiety, or to start investigations into potential neurodiversity.

If it transpires that these are not factors, then I think you need to try releasing the heavy control you’re exerting at the moment and giving her more opportunities to act and be treated in an age appropriate way.

[WhenTheDragonsCame]

@Cocopogo she sounds like my daughter. DD is 19. Quite a lot of people have told me they think she is on the autistic spectrum but when she was about 11 we went to CAMHS and because she didn't have any obvious obsessions they said she couldn't be autistic and the eating was just greed!

She is also very social but she has a tendency to stand too close to people and get very over excited. All of her friends have mental heath difficulties or behaviour problems as the children without would never put up with her for long. She also appears to accept change but I don't think she does and just keeps it inside.

I don't have any advice as I have never been able to get any effect support. Schools have tried since primary but nothing really worked. We went through some really tough times when she was a teenager but things are better now.

With my DD any sanctions had to be instant or they didn't work. For example if she was rude and I threatened to turn her internet off she would instantly apologise and she would stop. If I tried to put in a consequence for walking out of school in the middle of the day it had no effect at all. It was like in the moment she couldn't associate her behaviour with having something removed later in the day.

Sorry this is long but I just wanted you to know I get it and it's hard!

[AfternoonToffee]

Don't underestimate the toll that lockdown has had on our young people. Has she just started high school? If so she would have done all the transition in lockdown and unusual circumstances. My DS is yr 8 (so 2nd year at senior school) and at parents evening last week the teachers were saying about the effect it has had on them to have missed a significant proportion of year 7.

Forget the sanctions, they haven't worked, undo them and start reaching out for the right help.

[wheresmymojo]

Also it's worth mentioning that 'a very distressed mental state' often doesn't show up the way people might expect.

I never cried. I didn't show any external signs of anxiety.

I can see why people who haven't been there would think 'how can she possibly be distressed or depressed, she doesn't cry, etc'. But that's often not how depression shows up.

Even as a child you learn to mask things very well, particularly if you get told off or get comments for being 'moody' or 'sulking' like I did.

The behaviours you are seeing are (in my opinion from having been there) a result of her heavily masking something that is going on for her and so the pain is escaping in other behavioural forms she can't control as much.

Whether it is masking autism, depression or PTSD due to a trauma you may or may not be aware of...

[YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators]

DD1 is presenting like yours in some ways, and a very short previous foray into experimenting with sanctions quickly taught me that she is not able to integrate behaviour / consequence / modifying behaviour, so I don't sanction in this way, as ineffective and likely harmful.
DD is awaiting clinical assessment for ASD following CAMHS referral; girls tend to present differently to boys.
Bottom set following secondary transition should be investigated and you may be able to push for EP referral. Our strongest ally has been school SENDCo who has banged on many doors on our behalf.

[Starkcurtain]

As PP have said, it sounds an awful lot like depression to me.

It’s not right to ‘sanction’ her until you know for sure that she isn’t unwell. I suffered from depression when I was not much older than her - all of the above is incredibly familiar. I didn’t get the help I needed as soon as I should’ve because my mum didn’t see a ‘reason’ why I was depressed, and thought I was ‘too young’.

My family can tell when I’m having a bad mental health week now, at 24, because the house becomes like a biohazard (messy), diet goes out the window and washing my hair/putting on makeup becomes too much like hard work.

Please take this seriously and behave as though she’s really struggling, until you’ve taken her to the GP/contacted CAMHS and confirmed otherwise. And good luck

[3scape]

Everyone is suggesting contacting the gp etc. My 13 year old is likely this and with a temper has attacked me several times. What is it you're expecting GP to do as that's pretty much what ours said.

[30littletoes]

Some of the parenting you have described is really concerning OP.
How long exactly is your DD left home alone? Why is she not allowed to leave her room before 7am? Why on earth would slapping a 12 year old on the legs be acceptable?
This makes me question your schedule and what meals you are providing for your growing preteen? How active are you as a family if she is slightly overweight?

I think you might need to take this opportunity to step back and evaluate your techniques.

It sounds like your daughter is desperately grappling for some control over the only elements of her life she can. She’s 12. There may be an underlying medical reason for her behaviour, or there may not be. It doesn’t sound like you are treating her as a growing child/ nearly teenager.
There is a fine balance at this age between providing care and giving responsibility- it doesn’t sound like the balance is working in this case.
She needs her clothes back, her toys back, and her social life/ activities back. Within reason, she should be able to move freely around her own house. You need to address the food completely separately to anything else. I’m sorry, but you are responsible for collecting her clothes at the end of the day and ensuring they are laundered so that she is wearing clean clothes. Getting teenagers to shower is a really common battle.

She may need help for external parties, however you also need to help her, and nurture her. Sticking your head in the sand and saying she is difficult will not help her. Reassessing your approach and starting from scratch might.

[Starkcurtain]

Also agree with @wheresmymojo - children are often as good at masking as adults are.

I was told that I was ‘whinging’ when I cried as a youngster, so I quickly learnt to save the tears for my pillow and was always quite a closed book.

Just because you don’t see her being emotional doesn’t mean she isn’t struggling

[endingintiers]

I have a teen daughter who was diagnosed aged 14 with ADHD and I did wonder when reading your post if that might be a factor, alongside depression. The letting her mouth get in the way, binge eating, messiness, issues with friendships - all this I witnessed.

Our relationship deteriorated massively before diagnosis to the point that in frustration I hit her, I was investigated by social services and thankfully discharged. Over many years we have worked it out together and we are now very close and she trusts me. Diagnosis and ADHD meds help A LOT as do letting things slide and focusing on the big picture. Ask your GP for a CAMHS referral but be prepared for several rounds - we had 3 referrals via school, and the ADHD diagnosis was a shock as no one had suspected it and it does present very differently in girls for boys.

You cannot control your daughters behaviour. Taking things away, locks etc is a form of control and abuse. You need to work with her to help her. Ask her what she needs to help her keep clean and tidy. Can you book her a hairdresser? Buy extra milk and bread, or some healthier snacks? Rejoin her clubs or find new ones? Take her shopping for some clothes she loves? Bite your toungue all the time and just focus on showing support. I now tidy her room once a month or so when she goes out without her asking, I never mention it but she greatly appreciates it and I now know it's because of her disorganisation that she's like that.

Definitely look at parenting classes and anger management too, both of those helped me. And make sure you get some time away for yourself as it's a very challenging time.

[blackcat86]

There is such a disconnect in how you speak about her compared to what you expect from her. You talk about her having toys like she is a young child not nearly a teenager and yet you expect her to have long periods of time home along and sort her own washing into the basket. You have hit her. You have removed anything you possibly could. You've made food a massive issue when it doesn't need to be. You desperately need parenting support and your DD needs MH support. Do you spend quality time with her? Do you help her do things to feel good about herself and improve her self esteem? Do you talk to her with respect? Teens are hard. DSS 17 has had issues with body odor and needing clothes washed or not tidying his room. If the room is a mess I open his window and shut the door! If he smells I tell him to jump in the shower and check his clothes in the wash basket. I don't have to berate him and remove stuff. Just guide and suggest.

[endingintiers]

[quote Cocopogo]@Winkywonkydonkey she sleeps anytime between 8 and 6am ish. She goes to bed between 7:30-8pm and sings herself to sleep, sometime in 10 mins sometimes, she can get up a few times “thirsty” “don’t feel well” etc and it can be 10 or 11pm. She’s always up early though. In summer between 5-7am[/quote]
Also she's going to bed early, and getting between 9-11 hours sleep so I think leaving her room before 730 is fine! Mine used to rush down the stairs for her mobile phone at 5am which drove me crazy, so we eventually agreed she could get it from 6am as long as she tried to be quiet on the stairs and wasn't late for school.

[lydia2021]

Poor kid. She must feel so alone and alienated. Sanctions, ... removing her club activities.. what....unkindness at school as well... the parent needs some parenting classes..seems to me the world is against her.

[toucantoucaninatree]

Please reinstate her dancing, singing , youth club. Those activities can only help her.

[queenmeadhbh]

So we have:
-binge eating
-poor hygiene/self care
-untidy room

Why is this not immediately setting off alarm bells for you of a mental health issue?

What you presumably hoped the sanctions would do is change her behaviour. But even if that did work, it wouldn't change whatever the underlying cause for the behaviour is. You would have a child who washes and cleans her room but who is still suffering. Is that what you want?

Also some of the things you say sound bizarre and alarming to me. You took away her CD player because she became too focused on the news?? So what if she likes the news? Why is that worthy of punishment? And if it was that she was displaying obsessive behaviors around eg the news about covid, that's another massive sign of MH issues. That won't be solved by punishing her.

The thing about her having to stay in her room til 7am is also very alarming. Why can't she get up if she's awake? If the issue is that she is getting up secretly and binge eating, then you need to get her support for the issues, not make her stay in her room so she has no access to food.

Agree with others that while I'm sure you mean well it sounds like your parenting decisions are causing issues.

[Sunnyfreezesushi]

I think what might be helpful OP
is if you start another thread about what other people’s 12 and 13 year olds are doing eg what time they go to bed, how many activities do they do, how much contact do they have with their friends, how are they doing at school. It really is a transition period from being managed by your parents to having to learn to manage your life on your own. I remember feeling very happy when my DD was that age when we had our evening chat and she replied “Mummy, don’t worry, I have my friends and tutor to talk to about any problems/worries as well.”

What springs out to me is that your DD does not have any close friends who are their to support her and grow up with. School life is much harder for overweight children, that is a fact (and an incredibly sad one). The fact she has been put in a bottom set too means she has lost confidence and motivation.

Yes, go to the GP but also find something/anything for her to do that she is good at to rebuild her self esteem and love for herself. Ideally, something she can also make friends in.