To not know what to do with DD12 please help

[Cocopogo]

DD12 behaviour is getting worse. I’ve tried hard discipline and I’ve tried love bombing type approach but nothing seems to be helping.
Their doesn’t seem to be any sanctions that she cares about much and once it’s gone and she’s had a tantrum about it it seems to be forgotten and the behaviour continues.
The worst behaviour is the taking food. She will eat EVERYTHING in the house (she’s now overweight) I don’t just mean junk food, I don’t buy it because she’ll just eat it. I mean everything. She’ll go in bread bag and take 5 slices of dry bread, she’ll eat a full box of cereal, she’ll eat all the yogurts out the fridge, she’ll open random tins in the cupboard and eat it. She’ll stick frozen fish fingers in the microwave for 5 mins and then eat it. All these behaviours happen when I’m out the house or very early in the morning. I’ve even considered putting a lock on the kitchen door but that isn’t teaching her control is it. Yesterday she ate all her siblings birthday chocolate.
I don’t even know how to put boundaries in as she has no phone now, she no longer goes to dance lessons she used to love, singing lessons she used to love, a youth club, watch tv, most of her toys have gone and none of these sanctions seem to have helped.
Other behaviours are that she doesn’t look after herself. Matted hair, doesn’t wipe after the toilet, needs telling every single day to brush her teeth, her room is very untidy and I end up having to sort is as it becomes a health hazard.
Please help, I don’t know where to start.

OP just overhearing your comments (not knowing you or anything about you), say on a train, I would assume that your daughter disgusts you - her greed, her defiance, her smell, her body, her refusal to grovel to you or to beg you for help - just everything about her!

We are forever strangers - what do you think she assumes about you?

This is so sad.

@Cocopogo

Yes I did. My lovely parents used to hit me, I wouldn’t dared take food or mess my room up.

@andtheweedonkey when you put it like that it sounds awful but when she’s wearing smelly dirty clothes what was I supposed to do other than take them away so she has less responsibility and can cope better? It didn’t seem like a control thing at the time, it felt like reducing the pressures.

Funny that. My mum used to hit me too. She wasn't lovely.

You need to do her laundry - I presume she wears uniform at school and PJs/nightie in bed?

Then you provide clean undies/shirt/socks each day, and clean PE kit, clean skirt/trousers.
You provide clean PJs each evening.

You are the parent. Your responsibility.

Seems I took longer to post than I realised and updates have appeared. Will catch up.

I think family therapy via CAMH

I fear that you are unwittingly causing this problem? If you take away all her enjoyment and control then she kicks back at you by sort of passive aggressive protest. You can't parent a teen like a toddler or a small child. You are preparing them for being an adult. They need some control and they need to learn how to manage

It's normal for them to have messy rooms, take food and not take care of hygiene properly at this age. Not to this extent but to a degree. It needs gentle correction not harsh sanctions. DD did all those things a bit and I just talked to her about why it wasn't a good idea, did stuff like encouraging her to choose toiletries she likes, helping to cook meals, bribed with extra pocket money for household chores.
I give her a time limit to tidy her room on a Saturday in competition with her brother.
If they
I'm a fan of natural consequences. If her room is messy and she can't find stuff I point out that is her own fault. Don't bring your washing down then you have no clean clothes/ you have to put your own wash on. Don't wash and you smell I point out that your friends may notice this.

You say you tried love bombing but what did you try?
Loving parents do not hit their children.
Slapping her legs age 12 is an absolute no no.

I think your DD really struggling too.
Don't make any assumptions about ASD or ADHD as girls present quite differently sometimes.
My DD is highly intelligent, is able to converse and express herself beautifully, has friends, but is under CAHMS for anxiety and they have suggested an ASD assessment might be worth doing for her. Some of her issues have definitely got more acute since High school/puberty.
Good luck. But please stop punishing her,as others have said, it doesn't sound as if these behaviours are responding to sanctions.

This sounds like me when I was bulimic age 15... She sounds like she’s really struggling. Sanctions won’t work. What’s the rest of her eating like in front of you? It’s worrying that all this is in secret.

@Cocopogo

She doesn’t meet any markers for autism so I’m not sure why this seems to have been mentioned several times. She is very socialable, just unable to keep friends. No communication issues as such. Quite flexible in thought etc.

However, I do think everyone is right and going to the gp with an open mind is the next step.

I tried turning a blind eye to reduce conflict and assumed it was the raging hormones and would settle with age but it’s getting worse.

Not being able to maintain friendships is absolutely a sign of autism. Girls with autism present very differently. You both need some serious help.

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe sorry you think I’m so useless. I love my DD and have tried very hard to help her. I posted on here to see if anyone has any further advice as I feel like I’m running out of options. When I previously posted about the stealing food, a couple of years ago, I was told I was being dramatic to call it stealing and the poor child was probably just hungry or had worms

@BrumBoo The school doesn’t think she has SEN, the neurologist doesn’t either and I seem to be pegged as one of those parents, who think there’s something wrong when their DC is just unruly or that’s certainly how it comes across.

Your parents hit you and you complied out of fear. Is this really what you want for your own daughter? This is your chance to break the cycle. It sounds to me like she's lost trust in you and - to be blunt, you are responsible for rebuilding that relationship and earning her trust again. I can totally see how taking the hard line can seem like the only option but you need to change your mindset to helping her rather than getting your own way and unquestioning compliance (teenagers are messy!). I agree with other posters that your daughter needs help but I don't think shipping her to the gp is the way to go about it - she's your daughter, you're the parent - you're the one who is there all the time and it is your job to build a trusting relationship with her. Can I recommend a really good book "the book you wish your parents had read by Phillippa Perry. We've all been "taught" parenting by our parents in a different time and world from the one we find ourselves in now (especially with the trauma these kids have suffered this last year with Covid and isolation etc) - what our parents did was what they had to do to manage then, now we know better we do better and I'm afraid that has to start with you. I think if you can change your parenting and improve your relationship with her you'll find that a lot of the problems will go away very quickly. I also found the book a-z of therapeutic parenting very helpful (it's applicable to any child who's suffered trauma or every child in the world in the last year!).

OP, female autism is extremely different to male autism. Here is a checklist:

www.staffordshire.gov.uk/Education/Access-to-learning/Graduated-response-toolkit/School-toolkit/Communication-and-interaction/Social-communication-autism/SEN-support-in-school/Autism-in-Girls-checklist.pdf

Amber Peat.

That's who this thread made me think of.
Poor child.

She's an unhappy girl.

Have you say her down and spoken to her as a young woman she is becoming ?
Does she have needs that are not being met ?
You say you have taken away her toys , do 12 year old girls have toys ? What are they ? ( By that age I didn't play with toys , not did my dds ) I read, draw , and listened to music etc.
With regard to her overeating , she's probably self soothing her emotions with food , likewise the not washing, she could be feeling unloved , and thinking of she's unloveable , why should she love herself .I
Your daughter is silently screaming out for help.

It def sounds like a binge related eating disorder, punishing won't help as it's not something she's in control of.

Your dd needs professional help.

[quote Cocopogo]@MobyDicksTinyCanoe sorry you think I’m so useless. I love my DD and have tried very hard to help her. I posted on here to see if anyone has any further advice as I feel like I’m running out of options. When I previously posted about the stealing food, a couple of years ago, I was told I was being dramatic to call it stealing and the poor child was probably just hungry or had worms

@BrumBoo The school doesn’t think she has SEN, the neurologist doesn’t either and I seem to be pegged as one of those parents, who think there’s something wrong when their DC is just unruly or that’s certainly how it comes across.[/quote]
I would approach the GP for a community paediatrician referral appointment.

Girls often present with conditions differently to boys. Especially as teens.

These are signs that parents, teachers and carers can look out for if they think that a child may have autism:

Difficulty with social interaction and communication
Problems forming friendships
Mistaking social cues or body language
Misinterpretation of conversations
Finding it easier to form friendships online
Poor eye contact
Expressing that they ‘don’t fit in’
Inflexibility or rigidity of thought (‘black and white’ thinking)
Sensory processing difficulties
Experiencing sensory overload e.g. finding the noise of school overwhelming
Being unable to cope with queues or crowds
Sensitive to touch
Having difficulties with the planning and organisation of their work, bag or school day
Emotional difficulties
Low self-esteem
Difficulty or reluctance to express or label their own emotions
Levels of anxiety which seem excessive compared to the situation triggering them
Low mood or depression
A desire to withdraw from the outside world

From what you're saying it wouldn't be such a leap to your daughter's situation.

This sounds really hard to cope with and you sound like you already have enough stress in your life.

I would go to the GP AND speak to the pastoral lead/ SENDCO at school. If she was previously coping academically and it was a surprise that she was in low sets then that may indicate a learning difficulty. I would request a WISC V or other diagnostic IQ test to see if there is a difference between cognitive ability and attainment. You will have to be a total PITA to get this - I would also request a referral to CAMHs either via your GP or via the school nurse. This isn't all medication and labels but can also be signposting to social groups that may provide interest, support and friendship. Many LD can have traits similar to autism as it all stems from processing speeds or differences. ADHD can manifest itself differently in girls and can lead to being socially less mature or able, whilst also impacting on learning.

She is telling you things aren't right with her and this is the toughest part of parenting IMO - switching your mindset. But remember she is not being naughty, she is scared or hurting. She is not really shouting, she is crying. She is asking for help. Hope it improves and you have my total sympathy.

Sounds similar to my dd, except now she's 19, I can't do anything to get her help as she has to want to do it herself, and she doesn't. She was diagnosed with Aspergers at 10, but I'm pretty sure she has ADD too....she struggles with all these issues, to different levels and procrastinates about everything to an extreme level. You can barely get into her room, and she has pretty much become a hoarder.

I would definitely seek help from your GP and don't let them fob you off.

Good luck.

I’d see gp pronto , bless her she’s sending up distress flares . Has there been a trauma ? Life change ? I work with teenagers in a large school and have for 15 yrs plus , this is not naughty . She needs help and get her back to clubs !

This is just so heartbreaking to read. She needs help and love, not sanctions.

Does she see her dad?

OP, see if you can get this moved out of AIBU, you don't need a pile on.

PP was correct that you have tried out sanctions that may have worked if this was bad behaviour. They haven't and there seems to be something more at play.

With no phone, clothes, toys, activities, that must be fairly miserable for your daughter. The friendship issues too and the lack of self care and compulsive eating indicate her distress.

GP, CAHMS and school. Agree that parenting advice may be helpful too.

OP, you've not failed, you have tried to help your daughter and are seeking support. Let her know today that you care.

Name changed for obvious reasons.

Not to be worst case scenario Andrea, but I acted exactly like this in my early to late teens following being groomed and sexually abused as a teen. My parents did the same, the shaming, the hitting when the frustration got too much, the laying the blame on me.

I was mentally ill, food and my own hygiene was the one thing I could control- I found comfort in the food because I had a binge eating disorder and the hygiene thing was hugely linked to my depression, self worth and not wanting anyone near me.

I'm not saying this happened to your daughter (and before people say, 'Oh, I would know!' You really wouldn't, it happened under everyone's nose and when I finally told someone the entire family was shocked) but she is mentally ill and she needs help. And most of all, how you talk about her on here, she not only knows you think that but she probably thinks a lot worse about herself.

She needs help. This isn't about you, your sanctions and cruel and isolating even if your intentions are coming from a place of concern.

This won't be fixed overnight, please be patient with her.

Poor girl why would you stop her doing the activities and hobbies she loves? No wonder she is on downward spiral. Will you now let her start then again?

You need to reinstate her activities. Possibly not the phone.
I'd suggest speaking to the school SENCO but IME they are over worked and out of their depth. I'm close to paying for private counseling for my DD after years of asking for support. It's hard.

OP some people are being quite harsh here. Sometimes as parents we do the wrong things but for the right reasons. It sounds like you're trying to find ways to help her but sanctions haven't worked. Can you try to focus on rewarding good choices instead. Tell her she can go back to her activities and get het excited about it then you cam both make sure she is clean and showed before she goes. Have very simple rules about keeping her room tidy. Clothes put in washing basket- well done you've earned some time on your phone to chat with friends. Make up some positive consequences together that can be easily achieved and negotiate and agree together wjat you both feel is reasonable for her to be able to achieve but keep her part of the process.

I still think a GP referral is a good idea too as there could be deeper rooted reasons for the eating and as has been said previously girls with ASD present differently. Being chatty and wanting to have friends doesn't rule it out. Ig she is struggling with maintaining friendships you should prioritise helping her with this so tjat would mean no taking away clubs.

Good luck OP

It's going to take ages to get a referral
I think more likely depression than anything neurodevelopmental.

Meantime please give her her stuff back
Try to sit down and have a talk with her and say sorry that you got things wrong and were too harsh on her but you love her and want to help her.
I agree with a PP it comes across you are disgusted by her. That's so sad. You do love her right?
Ask her how you can help
Re self care a trip to the hairdresser for a cut of her choice, new accessories and toiletries
Re mess I think just stop being so controlling about it. It's their room I just shut the door on it mostly. If they mess up communal areas I think it's more an issue but mess in their own room not so much. My DD will massively tidy up if she has friends over.
Re food get her involved in meal prep and cooking, tell her about healthy eating. If she's up very early eating then is she not fed enough at night or why not get her own healthy breakfast. Maybe she'd like a smoothie or overnight oats or scrambled egg on toast?
Encourage exercise. Offer to do something together.