"I Wanna Be Like You"

[SpottyOrange]

Not sure if this is an AIBU but is that song from the jungle book racist?!
Yes: it's dated and awful
No: don't be daft

@CirqueDeMorgue

I'd have thought MNers would be clever enough to understand why it could be seen as racist...

They are, but it's become more prevalent on here nowadays to deny racism and insult people who highlight it.

@CirqueDeMorgue

I'd have thought MNers would be clever enough to understand why it could be seen as racist...

They are, but it's become more prevalent on here nowadays to deny racism and insult people who highlight it.

Sebastian is a poorly drawn stereotype of a Caribbean man.

Well, now I feel silly, I thought he was French

@Hopdathelf

What did I miss about The Little Mermaid?

Sebastian is a poorly drawn stereotype of a Caribbean man.

Exactly.

How long do you give it though till someone says "But he's orange? And he's a lobster? I don't understand why people think he's meant to be black? "

@OppsUpsSide

Sebastian is a poorly drawn stereotype of a Caribbean man.

Well, now I feel silly, I thought he was French

There is also a problematic French character - the chef!

whiteshark it's not scars = evil is damaging to people with facial differences. Every year there is a campaign to change this at Halloween.

'An orangutan is singing to an Indian boy, so that's all it is'; are people really so dim they don't understand allegory and deeper meanings?

are people really so dim they don't understand allegory and deeper meanings?

No, just deliberately obtuse. Idiots.

Oh maybe it's people who genuinely don't see the connotations for themselves. I love The Little Mermaid and know it by heart. I never perceive Sebatsian as any steteotype apart from a king's sidekick and killjoy. If his chatacter is racist then that racism is lost on me.

@Hopdathelf

are people really so dim they don't understand allegory and deeper meanings?

No, just deliberately obtuse. Idiots.

Blissful ignorance. They didn't use the usual bad words, they didn't draw the usual bad pictures, so I can't hear it or see it.

Yeah, cocked up the voting, sorry. As an aside, my dd(13) found out that that age differences between many of the rescued princesses and their hero princes is rather alarming

@SallySycamore, thank you for the link. Really balanced and informative. Paul Robeson as a casting possibility for Uncle Remus! though I doubt his politics would have pleased Disney. I recall the Uncle Remus character having agency in the film. I wonder how many of those who want it banned have watched it through and understood the context, both of the setting (restoration) and the production (pre-Civil Rights 1946) though to be fair, I could be wrong.

I recall reading a review of the Blues Brothers in the Guardian (I'm not sure it was by the same reviewer who said Song of the South was racist and was set during slavery) that might have said the Blues Brothers was racist, tended to exploit rather than celebrate all the Black musicians and singers and the Blues Brothers were driving at the protesters against the Illinois Nazis.

@MandalaYogaTapestry

Oh maybe it's people who genuinely don't see the connotations for themselves. I love The Little Mermaid and know it by heart. I never perceive Sebatsian as any steteotype apart from a king's sidekick and killjoy. If his chatacter is racist then that racism is lost on me.

Bet you don't see colour either.

I know, imagine pretending you don’t realise why black magic is called black magic etc

I think it is accepted that older Disney films have racist elements, I don't really know why people are arguing about it. We all have to use our judgement whether to watch with the kids or not. My own opinion is that the racist stereotypes in Disney will not harm them because they have been brought up to hate racism, just as a bit of religion in school will not radicalise them.

But black magic being racist, now that is stupid. not everything black is about racism.

But black magic being racist, now that is stupid. not everything black is about racism.

That’s right, too. I think it’s more to do with the idea that evil deeds mostly take place in the dark.

For me, I think an argument can be made either way for King Louie. I perceive there to be elements of a racist caricature, but I also think there's a degree of plausible deniability, so I'm unsurprised that not everyone agrees.

But some of the other movies (Peter Pan, Aristocats, Dumbo being the ones that instantly spring to mind) are just jaw-droppingly racist in parts.

There is the issue that humans aren’t nocturnal and many are fearful of the dark (somewhat understandably I think) so erring towards darkness/black being unsafe and light/white being safe is probably more complex/limitation based than unconscious racism

@LizzieW1969

*But black magic being racist, now that is stupid. not everything black is about racism.*

That’s right, too. I think it’s more to do with the idea that evil deeds mostly take place in the dark.

Nope. When it comes to 'black magic' it's about what is considered 'evil'. Many different cultures have been considered to do 'black magic' or 'the devil's work' as religion spread, but over time what we consider to be 'black magic' vs what we have changed into 'white magic' can definitely be correlated to the cultures they originated from. For example, paganism is now not devil worship, but something naice middle class women do as a hobby. Healing magic, throw some herbs around and claim you're one with nature type-witch. 'Magic' from African and other non-white cultures is still seen as dark and evil, such as Voodoo.

@Nutrafin

For me, I think an argument can be made either way for King Louie. I perceive there to be elements of a racist caricature, but I also think there's a degree of plausible deniability, so I'm unsurprised that not everyone agrees.

But some of the other movies (Peter Pan, Aristocats, Dumbo being the ones that instantly spring to mind) are just jaw-droppingly racist in parts.

If Disney inc. made King Louie a red ape voiced by a well-known (in America) white singer in order to clean up their act, or move with the times, they're not getting much credit for it.

Louis Prima was really well-known for being Italian-American — he was one of the first people to mix Italian language and music in with jazz. And during WWII when Italians weren't very popular in America he continued doing it, to help separate Italian-Americans going about their day from the "enemy Italians".

At the time it was released I would think most people would have known exactly who he was.

@pepsicolagirl

It's an orangutan?!

If this can o worms gets opened I would imagine the crows from Dumbo must be crapping themselves...

They've already earned themselves a trigger warning on Disney+ I think.

On GMB the other day they were talking about Snow White being problematic because the Prince who kisses her to wake her up doesn't have her consent to do so. How do people feel about that?
Well she hadn't signed a "Do Not Resuscitate" order...

Can I please register my displeasure that a British accent is used to portray a bumbling idiot? Surely that is one of the ultimate stereotypes.

@Hopdathelf

What did I miss about The Little Mermaid?

Sebastian is a poorly drawn stereotype of a Caribbean man.

Yep. The intelligent, compassionate, loyal, right hand of the king who writes concerts, conducts orchestras and bravely places himself in danger to help rescue his friend.

Such a shitty Caribbean stereotype...

Is Scrooge McDuck racist?