"I Wanna Be Like You"

[SpottyOrange]

Not sure if this is an AIBU but is that song from the jungle book racist?!
Yes: it's dated and awful
No: don't be daft

[quote Zilla1]@JesusInTheCabbageVan

"Well, I would say that the film is more racist than the ban, unless you don't believe that the film is racist"

I've said the film is racist. As you ask the question in what looks like a binary way, at first glance, IMO, the value of what you call the 'progressive' elements outweigh the racist elements so think the ban is more racist than the film. You carry on being happy to erase Black characters and actors and think better of yourself for doing it in the cause of fighting racism.[/quote]
Oh ffs.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan "I really don't think though that 'it did more good than harm' is a good reason for bringing it back".

I admire your commitment not to 'bring back' racist films and your high standards. Even with the test of 'did more harm than good' there won't be many films left. Without that test then I'd start with Cabin in the Sky and possibly Stormy Weather with pretty much everything else banned. FWIW, I'm no apologist for racism and agree with most of the PPs on this thread who aren't saying 'FFS, it's just a kids film and similar' just not when they are talking about Song of the South.

I perhaps see the inherent racism in mainstream films and TV that white people don't when they focus on Song of the South (I think almost every Western made are arguably worse than Song of the South).

Again, isn't it odd the only film Disney banned was one with a Black lead with agency. Still better to erase Black people than the alternative.

It's got nothing to do with Indians not being white

My family are from Africa. There are many Indian people in Africa. Even there years ago Africans were made to step off sidewalks and seen as beneath white people and Indians, called monkeys and dogs. It is a reference to being uncivilised, unintelligent, lazy, dirty.

I do think the handling of Song of the South is unfortunate, because I think a film based on African-American folk tales (the tar baby actually being one of them) is a really good premise for a film. And from Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah, the integration of live action and animation looks brilliant. I think unfortunately (in terms of attitude) it was probably made too early.

I admire your commitment not to 'bring back' racist films and your high standards.

If you read what I posted, I actually said that I could understand some of the arguments for bringing it back. And I never said I agreed with it being censored. Literally all I said was that it was racist, and I gave reasons why, because you bloody asked! Yet you seem to have deduced from that that I'm a racist who wants to expunge black people from history.

@SallySycamore I think @JesusInTheCabbageVan has helped crystallise my thinking about Song of the South though I don't think they feel well-treated. I agree with your points about the African folk tales and animation innovation. I understand what you are saying but my view now is that it was 'better than it should have been' for 1946 given all the other films made then that people haven't singled out that I think are far worse and the 'progressive elements' are too valuable to lose and the ban that erases Disney's first/only live action Black lead (until almost now?) and James Baskett's arguably highest profile lead role is much 'more racist' than the content.

I think that it's always good to learn about and understand historical attitudes. I must admit that I had no awareness of racism within the Jungle Book so it's been enlightening. These kind of topics always end up with a level of rancour, I guess because everything seems to be a culture war these days. Personally I think that a warning message prior to films/TV shows about the potential to be offended by historical attitudes is often appropriate.

sorry if you felt attacked, @JesusInTheCabbageVan. I don't agree with everything you said but think I can see where you are coming from.

@Zilla1 same! No worries. It's an emotive topic.

Omg get a life .... seriously

A bit like in Tom and Jerry, I never thought that the black lady's legs you sometimes see was meant to be understood as a maid — I just assumed she own the house.
I always assumed that she was the householder too. There was never even anything to imply that there was an employer. How many maids have the authority to take in three orphaned kittens into their employer's home? Quite a small house to have live-in staff too - she definitely lives there as: "Thomas! While you were out partying all night, I was trying to keep the mouse out of the refrigerator...", I'm sure that she had a bedroom depicted in one short too.

The voice actress certainly argued against the NAACP's protests.

Oh jesus fucking christ.

Are you that bored?

I always thought King Louie was based on Louis Prima, the musician who sings "I Wanna Be Like You." The animation of King Louie and the monkeys dancing and singing copied the movements of Louie Prima and his band as they performed the song. Louis Prima was Italian American.

I always thought King Louie was based on Louis Prima, the musician who sings "I Wanna Be Like You." The animation of King Louie and the monkeys dancing and singing copied the movements of Louie Prima and his band as they performed the song. Louis Prima was Italian American.

This has been mentioned before on this thread, unfortunately it flies in the face of the ‘it’s racist against African Americans’ argument so it’s largely ignored, like an uncomfortable truth.

This has been mentioned before on this thread, unfortunately it flies in the face of the ‘it’s racist against African Americans’ argument so it’s largely ignored, like an uncomfortable truth.

It doesn't at all fly in the face of it being racist. It's a weak 'gotcha' moment from those who want to deny racism around the Louis character/monkeys in the Jungle Book. The only uncomfortable truth is how much racism is in old Disney films, right up until quite recently (such as Aladdin).

YANBU at all and I am ashamed by some of the things I watched and didn't see the racism (and thus absorbed this shit). Breakfast at Tiffany's being a prime example. If anyone watches that nowadays and doesn't feel uncomfortable at her landlord they need to wake up.

I'd be interested to know what any American MNers think — do you think of the character as a black character, or do you instantly identify him as Italian-American based on voice/accent/slang?

I suppose I'm asking does he sound typically Italian-American if you're used to that accent?

(I'm trying to work out whether it's like somebody saying "oh it's clearly a horrible caricature of somebody from the East End of London" when they actually have a Brummie accent.)

And I'm not trying to let Disney off here — I can think of lots of other examples that are awful racial stereotyping. I'm just not sure whether I'm missing something, being British.

I would say Louis Prima did not "sound like a black singer," to me.

It's a slightly spurious thing for me to say though, because I'm sure I couldn't pass a blindfold test identifying black, white, or any other physiognomy of singers.

Oh come the blood hell on!

It doesn't at all fly in the face of it being racist. It's a weak 'gotcha' moment from those who want to deny racism around the Louis character/monkeys in the Jungle Book.

Really, a character based on and voiced by and named after an American Italian is racist against African Americans? Reeaaallllyyyy?

@OppsUpsSide

It doesn't at all fly in the face of it being racist. It's a weak 'gotcha' moment from those who want to deny racism around the Louis character/monkeys in the Jungle Book.

Really, a character based on and voiced by and named after an American Italian is racist against African Americans? Reeaaallllyyyy?

Do you really believe the whole thing was based on Louis Prima?

Considering the script,song and possibly even the animation would have been long underway before he was picked.

Plus that little detail that Louis Armstrong WAS their first choice but they thought it might look "bad".

So now it’s racist because they considered the connotations of their castings?

I don't know but I spotted this yesterday.

vm.tiktok.com/ZMeGTQE4q/

😂 that’s amazing!