To ask everyone in the UK to watch this NI documentary

[NornIronKid]

You will (hopefully) be aware of the Ballymurphy Massacre, that has been in the news this week, when innocent civilians were killed by British soldiers in 1971. It has taken 50 years for the victims' names to be cleared of any wrongdoing.

There has been a lot of posts on here mentioning NI over the past years due to Brexit, and it has become clear that many people in GB are not aware of the history. This documentary is from 3 years ago and now showing again on Ch4 - it is a long, difficult but important watch

www.channel4.com/programmes/massacre-at-ballymurphy

@Slub

Lots of innocent civilians murdered by the IRA too. Do you have a link to a documentary on that?

OMAGH !

@Pyewackect there was a warning given. It was decided By those above not to pass it on.
Or so it's been said so don't quote me.
I can't imagine anyone is proud of that atrocity.
I can only imagine however how painful it was and still is for the bereaved and community at large.
There were innocent people locked up for that crime.

[quote Monty27]@Pyewackect there was a warning given. It was decided By those above not to pass it on.
Or so it's been said so don't quote me.
I can't imagine anyone is proud of that atrocity.
I can only imagine however how painful it was and still is for the bereaved and community at large.
There were innocent people locked up for that crime.[/quote]
The IRA planted two bombs. The second one was placed where they knew people would be moved to. The victims included people of many backgrounds and ages: Protestants, Catholics, six teenagers, six children, a woman pregnant with twins, two Spanish tourists and others on a day trip from the Republic of Ireland. Both

I genuinely don't understand the context in which Omagh has been brought up on this thread. It was horrific, but the narrative has never been anything other than terrorists killing innocent civilians. The opposite is true of Ballymurphy which is why there have been inquiries. We could throw atrocities back and forth until the cows come home unfortunately. OP started this thread as many are unaware of what official, state sanctioned forces perpetrated and got away with, covered up and misreported. Both horrific, but there is a difference.

I see the British Empire is alive and well on this thread . I find the ignorance on thread astonising. Do yourselves a favour and actually do a bit of reading please. Do you understand the civil rights issues concerning the Catholic community in NI and how there is a NI and a Irish Republic ? And to continually bring the IRA atrocities into a thread about the murder of innocent people by the tax payer funded British Army is appalling. These people were murdered in cold blood and the British state covered up and excused their murder for decades . Read about why the Army was there in the first place ffs ! I remember reading about how Bloody Sunday was the IRA's best recruiting sergeant . I dont condone that of course ,but ffs the colonialist patronising attitudes on here shock me .

It was an awful time but there were wrongs on both sides, it went on for years and it was a frightening time for everyone. We can’t keep raking up the past and need to move on otherwise there is a risk of history repeating itself.

So Pixxie7 ,our Army should continue to get away with murdering innocent people ,colluding to cover this up , lying about the victims etc ? This was an operation that stank from the Highest rank to the privates . War crimes in other words. Those victims never got a chance to see their family grow up ,have grandchildren etc Meanwhile ,the murderers continue to have generous pensions and have been protected by the State .

@skirk64

There were many mass killings by all sides. Bloody Sunday, Bloody Monday, Bloody Friday for example. It's odd how the focus is always on those allegedly committed by the British Army and rarely on those by the IRA or loyalist groups.

If we're recommending films on the subject, '71 is an interesting look at the human side of the Troubles, showing what the British soldiers were up against, being targetted from Republicans and British alike. Contact is also good, a sort of docu-drama.

Call me picky, but killing sanctioned by a state/government/public authority of innocent people is always a bit fucking different to that carried out by a bunch of terrorists/organised criminals.

What would have a peaceful solution to the escalating violence in NI been?

How do you negotiate with terrorists?

I can't access the documentary, living outside the UK, but I wasn't surprised to see the apologists for British atrocities turn up on this thread, the 'what about the IRA' and the part-wilful, part-induced by decades of biased coverage, lack of understanding of the (as a PP rightly said) desperate position of NI Catholics prior to the Troubles and of the vicious response to their attempts to gain civil rights by peaceful means. I'm English and grew up with the narrative of 'the IRA' bombing 'us' and recall the broadcast ban. I learned literally nothing about Irish history at school, although tbf we did read Across the Barricades in English - which was taught in a very much six-of-one-half-a-dozen-of-the-other way that undermined some of the nuance of the book (as I realised when I reread the series as an adult). Watching Brexit unfold from an EU country, I've been very struck by the strength of continued beliefs of British (English) exceptionalism and colonial hubris (including on here), and it prompted me to read up on the history of NI. What I found out has left me sorry and ashamed for the arrogance, callousness and cynicism of my country of origin. The determination to put and keep the nationalist 'side' in the wrong which is apparent in some of the posts here is essentially what started the Troubles in the first place. (Because this clearly needs saying - no justification whatsoever to be read into this for violence and atrocities from any 'side').

Those that have watched the documentary in question, would you recommend it as an introduction and overview of history of the Troubles? What other TV production would expand their knowledge?

And to continually bring the IRA atrocities into a thread about the murder of innocent people by the tax payer funded British Army is appalling.

And why do the Dublin & Monaghan bombings never get brought up if going down the whatsboutery route?

One thing I really struggle with in Britain (I am British) is the veneration of the military. I refuse to wear a red poppy, and wear a white one, as a pacifist. I've been verbally abused for it.
There's a great organisation called 'Veterans for Peace' really worth checking out.
I met some once at the Friends (Quaker) meeting house in Euston. Very enlightened souls, who'd returned medals etc. I chatted to one very world-wearied peaceful veteran, and he explained that he'd grown up in a children's home, and felt little hope, when the army came along when he was still just a kid, and recruited him with lies. He explained that the army at that time deliberately targeted kids from challenging backgrounds with little education or hope. Really disgraceful. Poor man. He was very sad he'd been so deceived.
I think terrorist organisations did the same?
Yes, British state-sanctioned atrocities in NI were absolutely dreadful. As were terrorist atrocities. I do think most British people are very ignorant about it. It's not that people don't care, it's just ignorance. Nothing is black and white, but people often only hear one main narrative where NI is concerned (on both sides). I think the more we all inform ourselves with an open mind, and with love, and a view to making the world a better place for everyone, the better. Peace ☮️✌️🕊️

wotchhha : indeed , Dublin and Monaghan bombings . Possible British State involvement in those horrific atrocities ?

@Pixxie7

It was an awful time but there were wrongs on both sides, it went on for years and it was a frightening time for everyone. We can’t keep raking up the past and need to move on otherwise there is a risk of history repeating itself.

Yes. Atrocities on both sides

Tell us, though. Which "side" were the British army on?

Or, you know, RTFT

OP I watched this last night and then read a bit about what happened to the victims, some of whom survived the initial shootings

It was awful

And anyone who comes on with the whataboutery, you need to watch this. Educate yourself about the differences between paramilitary organisations and our army. Your ignorance is truly sickening

The thing is you can't ask people to watch this, because you want them to change the way they think to match what you think.

I don't think this is the case.

Outside NI hardly anyone has heard of Ballymurphy and this is just over an hour that explains things, the background, what happened and interviews people who were there. The last interview is a woman saying words to the effect that grief is the same whether your son is a soldier or someone walking down the street.

What would have a peaceful solution to the escalating violence in NI been?

This massacre took place in 1979.

I wonder how many deaths could have been saved had the UK government passed an equality act and changed the voting system.

OK hands up, anyone who hasn't seen the documentary, did you know there were so many people burned out of their homes there were refugee camps in Ireland?

@MabelPines
What would the solution have been?
I don't know but I'd hazard a guess that if the British Army hadn't shot innocent civilians at Ballymurphy and in Derry on Bloody Sunday, then the IRA would not have been able to operate with the level of support it had. The vast vast majority of people wanted equal rights, not terrorism.

I always inwardly roll my eyes at people who are against refugees coming to the UK when the citizens of the UK made refugees of their fellow country people.

Check out the documentary "Lost Lives" - shocking and very well balanced.

@NotThereNow

Those that have watched the documentary in question, would you recommend it as an introduction and overview of history of the Troubles? What other TV production would expand their knowledge?

On the RTÉ Player, Children of the Troubles and Shooting the darkness.

Netflix, The Miami Showband Massacre .

YouTube, Patrick Kielty- My Dad the peace deal and me.
Spotlight on the Troubles- a secret history. (I think this was originally on BBC so may be able to get it on the iplayer. This one is probably the most detailed because it's several episodes whereas the others are one offs.

Watch (or read) Peter Taylor's 3 programmes (&books) for the BBC, "Provos", "Loyalists" & "Brits" - they give a good examination of the origins & development of the Troubles. I learned a lot that I didn't know & that some of what I "knew" was wrong.

The fact that people on this thread are asking about programs made about Republican atrocities proves the majority of the people don't give a shit about NI. Of course there are programmes, there are probably hundreds of programmes that have been made about the troubles over the years, covering Republicans, Loyalists and The British Government/Army. Not to mention the books that have been written.
But nobody cares, so they haven't watched them. It's just whataboutery when they don't have leg to stand on to argue their point.

@FuriousCheekyFucker so if you closest family member who you love and know was shot and murdered and accused of being a terrorist when they weren’t you would just ‘let it go’