DM and her wishes for when she dies

[ScotlandUnited]

Apologies if this posts several times as MN seems glitchy
Will try not to make this too long!
My parents are almost 50 years married, been together 55 years, since teenagers. DF went to university several times, very educated, worked his way up to become a director, won awards, travelled internationally for work etc. DM left school with no qualifications, worked in shops and as a cleaner and also a SAHM. Both parents are great parents.
As they got older, however, this difference in their education and employment experiences caused strains between them. DF's travel caused resentment with DM who was stuck at home. She did have the option to travel with him, but when she did, she was bored, as she did not understand the subject or feel that she fit in. Not really DFs fault. What was DFs fault however, is that he fell in with the after work / lunch time drinking mindset and over the years developed quite a bit of a drink problem that has continued since he retired. He still socialises with old colleages and rarely with my DM. My DM feels like he is a lodger and they have nothing in common anymore. She also struggles with his verbal aggression when he has had too much to drink.
I have basically been my mum's counsellor for years now. have had to listen to her say how much she 'hates' him and wishes he was dead. She shouts at me and dad if we discuss things like politics because its boring. So as I said some things are his fault, some things are not. My DF tends to keep his feelings to himself although they argue a lot, so loudly the neighbours hear and complain.
Staying out of it isn't an option without going NC but I love my parents. There are mostly good times but the bad can be bad. My DSis lives abroad and we don't get on. She's closer to my DF than to DM and I'm closer to DM (don't have much of an option as she treats me like her counsellor!)
Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is because DM is asking me to promise that when she dies, I've to bury her alongside DGF and DGM and not with DF. She says she "doesn't care" what I do with DF when he dies whether he's buried or cremated or "dumped in a skip". Lovely huh? She keeps insisting that I respect her wishes and that she's serious.
So I am torn! I don't want to visit two graves for my parents but I also want to respect my DMs wishes too. I feel manipulated and that my mum is not thinking about me and how he's my dad. I don't get on with my DSis but I reckon she'd tell me to respect DMs wishes even though she was always closer to DF. I don't think my DF knows what DM is asking me and he'd be angry and upset.
DM does keep talking about divorce but its never happened and never will. I'm so tired of it all and it distresses me.
I know DM has a will. I don't know if the will states her burial wishes. If so, can I ignore her burial wishes if its in the will?
WIBU to completely ignore DMs wishes and bury her with DF? or do I have to respect her wishes?

[WhenISnappedAndFarted]

I also don't understand why it's such a big deal to visit two graves and by the sounds of it, it hardly sounds like remembering them together will give you a lot of positive memories.

[ScotlandUnited]

Just think for a moment about what it must be like to be in a marriage for half a century with no financial independence - or indeed independence of any sort

DM wasn't a SAHM for her whole life only part of it. She worked in retail whilst we were at school for a time and factories before she had us. she was also left some inheritance by an aunt of hers although I am not sure how much.

[Blossomtoes]

@ScotlandUnited

Just think for a moment about what it must be like to be in a marriage for half a century with no financial independence - or indeed independence of any sort

DM wasn't a SAHM for her whole life only part of it. She worked in retail whilst we were at school for a time and factories before she had us. she was also left some inheritance by an aunt of hers although I am not sure how much.

Did you read the rest of my post? It’s not just about money. Have you offered to help her leave? Given her any support? Or just begged her to do it?

How does bringing in a bit of money several decades ago and an inheritance that might be just a few quid confer financial independence?

I feel so sorry for her, not only is she living with an abusive alcoholic, but she’s under the illusion that her daughter is supportive when actually she doesn’t even like her very much. I wish I could help her.

[LizzieW1969]

It’s fascinating, how much it matters to people what happens to their body after they die, when they in reality won’t know anything about it. I’ve recently had my DM say something very similar to the OP’s DM. She doesn’t want to be lain to rest along with my F, who died 23 years ago. She wants to be lain to rest in her own parents’ plot. She also wants to be buried under her maiden name, when she’s known to everyone for many years by her married name. This is because since my DSis and I told her about how our F sexually abused us, which she’d previously known nothing about. I think it’s the only way she can ‘divorce’ him when he’s already dies.

Obviously, my DSis and I will make sure this happens. But my DB still idolises the memory of our F and he has serious MH issues. He goes to his grave regularly. So that will be hard to explain to him without telling him the whole truth, most of which he’s completely buried.

The OP’s parents’ marriage must be very bad for her DM to be this bothered about being buried separately from her DH. And this really should be respected.

Although I do think going on about it to the OP (who has a relationship with her DF) is likely to be counterproductive. She’s told her what she wants, now she should lay it out clearly in her will. Hopefully, by then she’ll have left him and built a new life for herself. But her wishes should be respected absolutely.

[PerveenMistry]

Of course you should bury her where she wishes. It's not about your convenience.

[Trytrytryasimight]

Smile and nod

[Coronawireless]

What a terrible marriage. I feel sorry for both of your parents. Cremation and ashes scattering is the way. Otherwise your DM is being difficult.

[Allthereindeersaregirls]

I'd honour her wishes. I'd then honour my father's wishes whatever they are. But I don't see a need to visit a grave, do visiting two graves wouldn't be a consideration to me.

[LizzieW1969]

Maybe the OP’s DM would get a more positive response from her daughter if she asked for her ashes to be spread somewhere that has special significance to her? Instead of simply saying that she doesn’t want to be buried in the same place as her the OP’s DF?

[Nanny0gg]

@LizzieW1969

Maybe the OP’s DM would get a more positive response from her daughter if she asked for her ashes to be spread somewhere that has special significance to her? Instead of simply saying that she doesn’t want to be buried in the same place as her the OP’s DF?

I really don't see why she should be looking for a 'positive response'

Her wishes aren't outlandish so I think if the OP had any loyalty or feelings towards her mother she should honour her wishes

[LizzieW1969]

It was just a suggestion. Obviously the OP should respect her wishes, as I said.

However, it sounds to me as if the OP’s childhood was toxic, and she’s no doubt feeling a lot of resentment as a result. The real tragedy is that her parents didn’t split up many years ago.

[MrsPaddyGrant]

If i were you I'd explain to DM that she needs to discuss with DF her wishes for when she dies. If she dies first then DF as NOK would be the one making the funeral arrangements - and it leaves you in a very difficult position trying to assert your DM's wishes re her burial arrangements. It seems very unfair of her to put this on you when you will also be grieving her loss. Why should you have to tell DF and have a difficult/ upsetting conversation when she's refusing to do it now when they can have a proper conversation?

If she does stipulate it in her will I think there is an obligation to carry out her wishes - but ultimately it will be your or DF's decision what happens.

My DF died 25 years ago - and DM bought a double burial plot and wanted to be buried with him - at one point a few years ago she said she didn't want to be buried with him - but this has changed again and now she says she does. But given your DM and DF are still here - this should be a conversation between them two and not have you stuck in the middle having to make a difficult decision.

[saraclara]

I have no idea why you'd want to talk to your dead parents 'together' when they clearly don't want to be.

If you have religious guilt, I'd have thought that you'd feel more guilty standing at that grave where you've put her with the person that she wanted to escape in death.

It makes no sense.

[DuckbilledSplatterPuff]

Your post made me feel so cross on your behalf!
I have known relatives like this, constantly ruminating over and talking about their death (for nearly 40 years!!!) to make everyone feel guilty and upset.in a way I found really distressing as a child.
Is there a medical reason why she is making this such an urgent issue?
I could be wrong but it looks like she is kicking off like this to spite your DF and underline how much she hates him and dragging you into it. It’s a BIG guilt trip drama isn’t it? Along the lines of “you’ll be sorry when I’m dead” it’s dreadful that she’s putting you through this. Putting it in her will tonight if you don’t agree to comply. That’s awful.

Why are you her counsellor? Isn’t this having a detrimental effect on you?

Also you say she has a prepaid funeral plan, look at the terms and conditions. Dont these plans more or less organise in advance what happens? She can plan this with them herself. I’d let her do that and then she knows her wishes will be followed.
It’s miserable what she’s doing to you.

[Ohyesiam]

You need to find boundaries with your mother. You’re her daughter not her therapist. I understand, ive been there, and my relationship with my mother is vastly improved for me saying no. My mum didn’t get it, had no idea what I mean when I say it’s not appropriate for her to dump on me, but gradually came to understand what I meant by no.

[aSofaNearYou]

All the other things aside, I think it would be extremely immoral to disrespect her wishes and bury her with someone she expressively told you she did not want to be buried with, just so you don't have to go to two different graves. I think that is appalling.

[Zzelda]

I can't see why you wouldn't go along with her wishes, to be honest. Your reasoning doesn't seem to extend much beyond the fact that you would find it inconvenient and that you think your father wouldn't like it. But have you actually asked him? Do you know whether he even wants to be buried rather than cremated?

If your mother has any sense she will put her wishes in her will anyway and take the decision out of your hands or your father's.

[PurpleRainDancer]

@AnUnoriginalUsername

Of course you should respect her wishes. You'd be happy burying her with someone who makes her feel like shit just because it's more convenient for you? Won't you feel awful everytime you visit the grave knowing she doesn't want to be there? Put them in the same cemetery but different plots, it won't make your life that much more difficult.

This

[DuckbilledSplatterPuff]

At the age of just 60 and with funds available and having already been capable of making a will and presumably adding to it, the DM is perfectly capable of organising her funeral plans exactly as she wishes.
She should just get on with it and stop dragging her poor daughter into ongoing feuds. Job done.

DMs behaviour is what’s appalling.

[OnlyInYourDreams]

The mother is still alive so is perfectly capable of making her own arrangements. Dragging her daughter into her marriage disputes and expecting her to do as she asks is just toxic behaviour.

As for all the sympathy the mother is getting here, OP said that she throws and smashes things so I hardly think she’s a victim here, the relationship sounds mutually awful.

FWIW given wills aren’t usually read until after a funeral putting something in the will would be pointless as the funeral will have been and gone by then.

At the end of the day it is down to the mother to make the arrangements for the burial with her parents.

Personally I think graves are bloody awful things and I’d be pushing for cremation. And if cremation happened I’d be telling the parent they needn’t expect me to visit their grave so they could be buried wherever they want (and can afford.)

[quizqueen]

Of course you should follow her requests, as she wishes. How would you feel if she buried you with an abusive husband whom you hated!

[Rhythmisadancer]

you don't have to visit anyone's grave, but if you're planning to I can't think that it would be very nice to think "There you are mum, exactly in the place you didn't want to be". Just bury her where she wants and don't visit.

[Dashel]

I’m going to take a slightly different view, if she dies first unless it’s in her will I would let your dad sort it out.

If she dies after your dad, I would talk to your sister about what to do. Once they are gone she should still be alive and your priority should be maintaining a good relationship with her.

[Blossomtoes]

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

At the age of just 60 and with funds available and having already been capable of making a will and presumably adding to it, the DM is perfectly capable of organising her funeral plans exactly as she wishes.
She should just get on with it and stop dragging her poor daughter into ongoing feuds. Job done.

DMs behaviour is what’s appalling.

Where do you get age 60? She’s been married for 50 years!

[billy1966]

OP,
Stop being your mother's counsellor, it is very bad for you.

Your father is an aggressive drunk...not fun.

I think it would be nice to honour your mothers wishes but whatever.

I feel sorry for their neighbours, your father sounds awful.

Protect yourself.