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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DM and her wishes for when she dies

140 replies

ScotlandUnited · 12/05/2021 16:02

Apologies if this posts several times as MN seems glitchy
Will try not to make this too long!
My parents are almost 50 years married, been together 55 years, since teenagers. DF went to university several times, very educated, worked his way up to become a director, won awards, travelled internationally for work etc. DM left school with no qualifications, worked in shops and as a cleaner and also a SAHM. Both parents are great parents.
As they got older, however, this difference in their education and employment experiences caused strains between them. DF's travel caused resentment with DM who was stuck at home. She did have the option to travel with him, but when she did, she was bored, as she did not understand the subject or feel that she fit in. Not really DFs fault. What was DFs fault however, is that he fell in with the after work / lunch time drinking mindset and over the years developed quite a bit of a drink problem that has continued since he retired. He still socialises with old colleages and rarely with my DM. My DM feels like he is a lodger and they have nothing in common anymore. She also struggles with his verbal aggression when he has had too much to drink.
I have basically been my mum's counsellor for years now. have had to listen to her say how much she 'hates' him and wishes he was dead. She shouts at me and dad if we discuss things like politics because its boring. So as I said some things are his fault, some things are not. My DF tends to keep his feelings to himself although they argue a lot, so loudly the neighbours hear and complain.
Staying out of it isn't an option without going NC but I love my parents. There are mostly good times but the bad can be bad. My DSis lives abroad and we don't get on. She's closer to my DF than to DM and I'm closer to DM (don't have much of an option as she treats me like her counsellor!)
Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is because DM is asking me to promise that when she dies, I've to bury her alongside DGF and DGM and not with DF. She says she "doesn't care" what I do with DF when he dies whether he's buried or cremated or "dumped in a skip". Lovely huh? She keeps insisting that I respect her wishes and that she's serious.
So I am torn! I don't want to visit two graves for my parents but I also want to respect my DMs wishes too. I feel manipulated and that my mum is not thinking about me and how he's my dad. I don't get on with my DSis but I reckon she'd tell me to respect DMs wishes even though she was always closer to DF. I don't think my DF knows what DM is asking me and he'd be angry and upset.
DM does keep talking about divorce but its never happened and never will. I'm so tired of it all and it distresses me.
I know DM has a will. I don't know if the will states her burial wishes. If so, can I ignore her burial wishes if its in the will?
WIBU to completely ignore DMs wishes and bury her with DF? or do I have to respect her wishes?

OP posts:
rach2713 · 12/05/2021 20:36

I'm sorry but some of these comments are pretty cold hearted. If her mum wants to be buried with her parents then that's her right and wish to do so. For you to turn round and say you don't want to go to two different graves is pretty sad and disrespectful...

Helenluvsrob · 12/05/2021 20:44

Well they’ll all be dead so I’m not sure it matters that much. I have no interest in visiting graves .
Agree now and decide when the time comes.

CovidSmart · 12/05/2021 20:48

Where she is buried or whether she is buried or cremated is none of your decision.

If your mum wants to be buried with your dgm, then so be it

As others have said, the issue would be if she dies first and hasn’t said a word to anyone else, incl your DF.

CovidSmart · 12/05/2021 20:53

l know he'd be very upset if he knew what DM was saying.

That is an issue between the two of them. It’s not yours to sort out.

I think you have been the counsellor and support for your mum for too long and boundaries have blurred. She is using you to have things done her way wo having to face actually talking to her husband.
You are so used to be somehow involved in their quarrels that you want to take decisions that aren’t yours to take iyswim

NCNCNCNCNCNCNCNCNC · 12/05/2021 20:53

I don't think your mum is being fair to you and if I were you I'd be shutting down these conversations. If she wants to stay in her marriage that's fine but it's not fair for her to expect you to engage with her misery. I feel for you, OP.

Palavah · 12/05/2021 20:54

I would strongly encourage you to seek some counselling yourself. It is a horrible situation to have one parent tell you all the failings of thw other and to walk on eggshells for fear of everything coming apart.

The way you write about this situation makes it clear that you have a lot of unresolved emotion about this situation and you would benefit from feeling heard.

Cocomarine · 12/05/2021 20:58

Very unfair of your mother to dump all her hatred for your father on you.

But I’m hearing, “my mum doesn’t went to be buried with a man who drunkenly verbally abused her, but I’m annoyed because I don’t want the hassle of going to 2 graves.” (to which I say: YABU)

AnotherKrampus · 12/05/2021 21:02

I loathe this kind of toxic manipulation but then I was subjected to something like this a few years ago, which obviously colours my opinion. But I think one needs to put some of the drama aside; when she is dead, she will be none the bloody wiser. When someone very close to me was dying, they became very bitter and totally unreasonable about some stuff but got in a terrible state when I did not want to carry out their wishes. So, I promised (to her god) I would do it after her death, crossing my fingers behind my back. I did not do any of it because it was completely out of order to other people I felt loyalty to. Someone’s death wish does not trump all, especially when it consists of an ongoing pattern of manipulation and represents emotional blackmail. Also, I am an atheist, so the ‘contract’ is unenforceable...

However, I think you need to establish some basic self-care and put boundaries in place. Your mother is incredibly out of order to you, bordering on emotional abuse by subjected you to constant tirades about your father. I have outgrown some loved ones that failed to grow and refused to intellectually challenge themselves, so actually feel for your father, while not excusing his drunken rants. However, her ignorance is not anyone else’s fault. Her overall resentment about you and others talking about interesting subjects is really out of order and she needs to either put up and shut up or do something about it. I think you need to woman up and any time she starts slagging off your father from now on, just tell her firmly that you don't want to hear it. It's really rather shocking that she hasn't built up some sort of social life of her own, to vent elsewhere. Yet, none of that is any of your problem or business.

Giantrooster · 12/05/2021 21:04

@Blossomtoes

As someone who’s lived with a verbally abusive alcoholic, she has my every sympathy. Unfortunately leaving a 50 year marriage must be close to impossible, it must be absolutely dreadful for her.

Do what she wants ffs. She’s had a life time of misery, why should she lie next to its source for all eternity to spare you the inconvenience of visiting two graves?

Poor bloody woman.

This

You seem to be all on your df's side. He's abusive and she is complaining and therefore a pain for you. It must be shit for her.

Next time she complains tell her your best advice AND then tell her 'if you don't want to do anything about your situation please stop offloading on me'.

Suggest councelling and get councelling yourself, but don't overrule her funeral wishes.

Original poster
ScotlandUnited · 12/05/2021 21:11

@AnotherKrampus thank you, you have more or less nailed the situation although I'm kind of religious and worry about coming across my mum in another life, then I try to tell myself that's silly.
Mum does have an active social life but I don't think she tells everyone how she feels or what's going on. Just me and as I'm not always there, its hard to know what's true. I do think she exaggerates it some times. I've also been party to her own bad temper at times.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/05/2021 21:14

So sick of them fighting all the time, having to take sides, having to listen to mum talking about how she hated him ...

Again, why do you feel you have to do this? No doubt you'd support DM if she wanted to leave, but I'm not seeing any indication that this is likely, so what exactly are you supposed to do about it?

Also it's not clear whether you live with them? If so, that might be something worth reconsidering

Babyroobs · 12/05/2021 21:22

You should do as she wishes. Surely it wont be a huge inconvenience to you to visit two separate graves ?

SatNightFever · 12/05/2021 21:24

So she isn’t prepared to find the strength to leave him, and instead wants you to find that strength on her behalf after she’s gone. Making you give two fingers to your own dad. Putting you in an awful position at a time of your own grief.

Tell her to do her own dirty work. She is prepared to stay with him ( for familiarity? Income? Fear?) yet expects you to drop the bombshell of ‘splitting up’ after she’s gone .

Back off from being her confidante .

minniemomo · 12/05/2021 21:26

Depending on where her parents are buried, it might not be possible to fulfill her wishes anyway. Our graveyard for instance is full and closed, only graves with a single coffin can take ashes

minniemomo · 12/05/2021 21:28

Ours also has only singles and doubles no triples

CheshireCats · 12/05/2021 21:30

You should respect her wishes and do as she asks. The thought that you would not because you want to visit their graves together is ridiculous. A complete non reason. It would be her last wish to be buried with her mother and you would go against this for your own convenience in visiting a grave? It is her wish - respect it.

Suzi888 · 12/05/2021 21:35

You need to tell her your intentions, at least then she knows she will have to take steps herself.

StillCoughingandLaughing · 12/05/2021 22:00

@SatNightFever

So she isn’t prepared to find the strength to leave him, and instead wants you to find that strength on her behalf after she’s gone. Making you give two fingers to your own dad. Putting you in an awful position at a time of your own grief.

Tell her to do her own dirty work. She is prepared to stay with him ( for familiarity? Income? Fear?) yet expects you to drop the bombshell of ‘splitting up’ after she’s gone .

Back off from being her confidante .

This has to be a wind-up. You’re seriously comparing leaving a 50-year marriage - nowhere to go, potentially no money of your own to do it with - to ‘finding the strength’ to bury a loved one where they actually want to be buried? I’ve read some shit on here in my time, but this...
Blossomtoes · 12/05/2021 22:03

@SatNightFever

So she isn’t prepared to find the strength to leave him, and instead wants you to find that strength on her behalf after she’s gone. Making you give two fingers to your own dad. Putting you in an awful position at a time of your own grief.

Tell her to do her own dirty work. She is prepared to stay with him ( for familiarity? Income? Fear?) yet expects you to drop the bombshell of ‘splitting up’ after she’s gone .

Back off from being her confidante .

This is so unfair. Just think for a moment about what it must be like to be in a marriage for half a century with no financial independence - or indeed independence of any sort. Imagine what living with an abusive alcoholic does to your self esteem.

We’re talking about a woman in her mid 70s, possibly older who’s been married for almost her whole life. Would you “find the strength” to leave?

I hope she manages to find a way to sort this out, OP, because it’s pretty obvious you’re going to be of no help to her.

Original poster
ScotlandUnited · 12/05/2021 22:03

@SatNightFever you make an excellent point and another one who I think has nailed it.

I don't live with my parents, but very close by. DSis is abroad. She did not have a great relationship with DM and DM always said she was relieved DSis moved abroad. DSis is very like DF in personality actually.

The plot has space for 3 people I think. DM owns it.

The way DF is drinking so much and also because he's so accident prone and clumsy - he'll probably die before her. Wonder what she will do. Actually don't know if he has a funeral plan. Will need to find out (without telling him what DM has been saying)

OP posts:
Redaska · 12/05/2021 22:04

In terms of her burial wishes, simply tell her that she needs to pre-arrange it herself. She will then probably find she can't be buried with her parents for the reasons others have said, but it will give her a chance to arrange something realistic that suits her. There is no reason she has to be buried near her husband. If she arranges it herself, your father will have no beef with you about it.

Other than that, don't engage. Their relationship is their business and they shouldn't try to involve you in the warfare.

GabsAlot · 12/05/2021 22:04

well like pp said if it isnt in her will and she dies frst her husband as nok will have a say where shes buried not you you cant promise anything

i think you need to make that clear

ChewtonRoad · 12/05/2021 22:05

DM has a funeral plan to pay for it so she says and she has a will but has confirmed today that where she will be buried is not in the will. She has threatened tonight to put it in her will if I don't agree to her wishes.

Good for your mum to have a funeral plan in place, but it's a poor idea to put her funeral wishes in her will. Sometimes wills are not read until after a person is buried or cremated, and as your mother has specific intentions she needs to write them down in another document.

My mum had almost every detail of her funeral sorted long before she died, although she left the choice of casket to me and my siblings.

She had obtained a booklet from the funeral directors and wrote down what she wanted, and that is what we followed after she died. The booklet was with her other personal papers, and mum insisted she go over it with us when she wrote it (about 15 years before her death) because she thought it was better to know what to expect than try and sort things out when grieving.

Knowing what we had to do made the logistics of dealing with my mum's death much easier when the time came. Whether we would have chosen X, Y, or Z didn't matter "because mum wanted this or that" and we did as she requested to be respectful of her last wishes.

blubberyboo · 12/05/2021 22:11

I don’t really get why it would be such a big deal for you to visit 2 graves. How could you visit them together knowing she didn’t want to be there

Certainly you should try to respect her wishes if the grave will hold an extra person.
Get her to enquire about it though as often families discover that their loved ones can’t be accommodated in an existing plot

StillCoughingandLaughing · 12/05/2021 22:14

As for those who say why not visit two graves - I want to see my parents in the same place. Remember them at the same time. Talk to them at the same time.

Newsflash - they don’t want to be remembered together. Or at least, your mum doesn’t want to be remembered with your dad. What do you think would have happened if she had left him when you ‘begged her to’? That she’d have left, but they’d have still been buried together to suit YOU?