DM and her wishes for when she dies

[ScotlandUnited]

Apologies if this posts several times as MN seems glitchy
Will try not to make this too long!
My parents are almost 50 years married, been together 55 years, since teenagers. DF went to university several times, very educated, worked his way up to become a director, won awards, travelled internationally for work etc. DM left school with no qualifications, worked in shops and as a cleaner and also a SAHM. Both parents are great parents.
As they got older, however, this difference in their education and employment experiences caused strains between them. DF's travel caused resentment with DM who was stuck at home. She did have the option to travel with him, but when she did, she was bored, as she did not understand the subject or feel that she fit in. Not really DFs fault. What was DFs fault however, is that he fell in with the after work / lunch time drinking mindset and over the years developed quite a bit of a drink problem that has continued since he retired. He still socialises with old colleages and rarely with my DM. My DM feels like he is a lodger and they have nothing in common anymore. She also struggles with his verbal aggression when he has had too much to drink.
I have basically been my mum's counsellor for years now. have had to listen to her say how much she 'hates' him and wishes he was dead. She shouts at me and dad if we discuss things like politics because its boring. So as I said some things are his fault, some things are not. My DF tends to keep his feelings to himself although they argue a lot, so loudly the neighbours hear and complain.
Staying out of it isn't an option without going NC but I love my parents. There are mostly good times but the bad can be bad. My DSis lives abroad and we don't get on. She's closer to my DF than to DM and I'm closer to DM (don't have much of an option as she treats me like her counsellor!)
Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is because DM is asking me to promise that when she dies, I've to bury her alongside DGF and DGM and not with DF. She says she "doesn't care" what I do with DF when he dies whether he's buried or cremated or "dumped in a skip". Lovely huh? She keeps insisting that I respect her wishes and that she's serious.
So I am torn! I don't want to visit two graves for my parents but I also want to respect my DMs wishes too. I feel manipulated and that my mum is not thinking about me and how he's my dad. I don't get on with my DSis but I reckon she'd tell me to respect DMs wishes even though she was always closer to DF. I don't think my DF knows what DM is asking me and he'd be angry and upset.
DM does keep talking about divorce but its never happened and never will. I'm so tired of it all and it distresses me.
I know DM has a will. I don't know if the will states her burial wishes. If so, can I ignore her burial wishes if its in the will?
WIBU to completely ignore DMs wishes and bury her with DF? or do I have to respect her wishes?

@MintyCedric

Your DM can and should lay out her wishes for her own body in her will. She can't determine what happens to your father.

This. I'd be inclined to reassure that you will do your best to follow her wishes but in all honesty it will depend on who goes first and all manner of other circumstances.

I appreciate it's tricky. My mum has had my nan's ashes stashed in a cupboard for nearly 40 years and wants them buried with her when the time comes.

It's looking as though my dad will predecease her and she's mentioned having his ashes in there too.

He and my mum are no Romeo and Juliet and he and my nan actively disliked one another so there is no way that will be happening.

Luckily I have no siblings to consult on the matter.

MintyCedric He and my mum are no Romeo and Juliet and he and my nan actively disliked one another so there is no way that will be happening.

Gooseberry bushes like ash, and so do roses. Just sayin'.

Why would you not want to respect her wishes? If that's the way she feels then that's her right, I'd just advise her to include that information in her will.

It sounds like your parents marriage is incredibly tense and I can imagine that is only exacerbated by your fathers alcoholism.

If you have an issue with her talking to you about their problems than that is a separate issue and should be dealt with but I hardly think it's your choice on who she should be buried next to?

I've never visited anyone's resting place. But I would absolutely abide by their wishes. It's the last thing you can do for them.

Unless they have a triple plot, your dm probably can't be buried ' with ' her parents .
you might find out your df doesn't want to be buried with your dm

Yes you should respect her wishes. My dad's ashes are with his parents ashes, and my mum wants to go with her parents (different crematorium). I know it's not quite the same as a burial plot, but I wouldn't dream of defying my mum's request - I would feel very guilty.

Are you your mother's executor? Because if you are not you won't have any control over what happens I think.

" Under current law, funeral wishes in a will are not legally binding. The executors appointed in a will have ownership of the body and are technically considered the decision-makers with regards to funeral arrangements. However, in practice, it will be your family members, or those closest to you, who are not necessarily appointed as executor in the will, who will make your funeral arrangements.

Your last will and testament is a legal written document that specifies where and to who you wish your property and possessions – known as your ‘estate’ – to be distributed to in the event of your death.

There is no reason not to include your funeral wishes in your will, but along with the fact they are not legally binding, bear in mind that your family may have begun making funeral arrangements before your will has been retrieved, so any wishes may only be seen after the funeral has taken place.

I think there are ways and means here.

I would agree to her request but try to change the subject.
If your DF dies first, she might change her mind. If she doesn't, inter her ashes where she wants to be but have an extra inscription, plaque, plant or urn near your DF's grave so you can honour them at the same place.
If your DM dies first, broach the subject with your DF and see whether he ever heard the same from your DM - you might be on the same page. If not, I wouldn't to be honest fight to the point of making relationships difficult but would add a plant or inscription to your DGF's grave.

Surely her husband, your Father is her next of kin and gets to make all the decisions regarding her funeral and burial. She needs to get proactive now and, if she can, pay for her funeral and secure the burial plot she wants.

I hate to say this but you could die before her and then what? She needs to establish what she wants now. Speak to a funeral director about pre-paying and about being buried with her parents. My Dad has his funeral all paid for after burying my Mum a decade ago.

There is a podcast called This Is Love and recently had Under the Oak Trees where someone was so determined that they didn't want someone buried near someone else in a plot they bought hundreds of the plots surrounding them. Anger clearly ran very deep.

As others have said if she doesn't own the plot it is academic where she wants to be buried. I've had family wanting to open up an old grave and discovering that as they no longer lived in the borough they had to pay the thick end of £10k for the privilege. I had one old lady who was wanted to be buried in a lovely old churchyard where she grew up. Not going to happen as the graveyard is full and you have to live in the village now to get an ashes plot.

It sounds like this is a way of expressing her anger and frustration at her marriage. Sorting out a plot and finding your options is a useful thing to do but it doesn't make her any happier in her relationship.

Yeah. Nod and smile. Also I've not been to my dads grave in years. You don't have to visit them.

My mums ashes are in my sisters house as we've not got round to scattering them.

Why the hell wouldn’t you respect her wishes not to put her with someone that’s abused her. My mum and dad won’t be buried together. You need to listen to her.

I think the answer really is 'Mum, unless you divorce him he is your next of kin and I don't get a say.

If that is what you want, prebook and arrange your funeral plan yourself'

If he has already died then no issue with her being buried elsewhere if she goes first then as her next of kin he'd get to choose (of course you could promise her that if that happened you'd put him elsewhere)

The executor is responsible for disposing of the body and has no obligation to follow the wishes of the deceased.

Has she checked if the plot next to her parents is available?

Sometimes it’s better to have separate single Graves with inscriptions with an acknowledgment of each of their close relatives. I made a Promise to my Mother that my Dad would eventually be buried in the same Grave as her, as at the time she was terminally ill with Cancer.

My Dad had not been very faithful to her whilst she was ill and had signed up to a Dating agency a few months before she died. This resulted in me no speaking to him for the following five years after he started sending me photographs of his ‘Dates’ and asking me to help him choose one, just a couple of weeks after my Mother’s funeral.
Within a year, he posted me a wedding invitation for his Marriage to this woman that he had known just a few months, l was totally heartbroken and chose to ignore it.

Fast forward 30 years, he becomes widowed again, 2nd wife’s family decide to bury her in the local churchyard in the village where they lived. They order a grave for two people, expecting my Dad to one day Join her. I said nothing to them regarding the promise that l had made to my own Mother. Dad finally Passes away, and leaves a note with his will to say that he doesn’t want to be buried in the same Graveyard as my Mother, where my Grand parents and Great Grandparents are buried too.
Do l was left with an awkward dilemma.
I chose to bury him in his local Churchyard, but alone, in a single Grave for one. The inscription and memorial stone was plain and simple, and used his Birth name, not the Snobby Double barrelled Name his second wife persuaded him to have, Husband, Father, and Grandfather, the year he was born, and the year he died, followed by R.I.P

My compromise was complete, and neither of his wives got their wish, although l suppose if my My mother had have realised how he had been behaving whilst she was ill she would not have wanted to be buried with him anyway!

Having buried my mum in 2019, you just have to go with there is room. I was asked if I wanted a double grave (my mum was single) so I guess they meant me! Umm no. So just agree with your mum because I doubt it’s an option to be buried with her parents unless previously arranged

I suspect you are going to get a lot of replies, but for what it's worth:

1. My DM tries to pull similar tricks with me. I refuse point blank to entertain it. That's what her friends, or a professional counsellor, are for. Being a good parent, IMO, also includes not slagging off the other parent to your children. I love my Dad dearly and I don't want to be party to complaints about him, or their relationship troubles.

And to be really blunt (sorry):

1. You can promise her anything whilst she's alive. Once she's dead, she's dead and she won't know.

I know you say your parents were good parents, but emotional manipulation and getting drunk and aggressive don't sound like excellent parenting.

Get her to set our her funeral plan now. Sort her will and sort a plot out ready. Then you're not the one having to sort it.

I don’t know why you wouldn’t respect her wishes.

I hardly ever to go the graves of family members. To me they are not really there, I don’t get any comfort form ‘visiting’ them.

In all honesty your Dad will probably go first given the alcohol consumption and the fact he’s male so it’s possible he’d never know.

If she wants that to happen she needs to put it in her will. However, she will have to have room in the grave she wants to be buried in. I understand that the first coffin to be in the earth has to be deeper if they want another on top, or they have to have bought a wider plot. So it may not be possible anyway. She should investigate this herself before putting it in her will. If she searches online she can contact whoever looks after the cemetery she wants to be buried in and ask them.

Presuming you will visit the grave as a mark of respect to them or for comfort for yourself, I really can't see how you can thing you can ignore your mum's wishes, I mean won't you feel guilty about doing something she begged you not too

I really wouldn't encourage her to put it in writing (obviously wouldn't stop her either). Keep things as flexible as you can.

*I think the answer really is 'Mum, unless you divorce him he is your next of kin and I don't get a say.

If that is what you want, prebook and arrange your funeral plan yourself'*

this, as above. Is this really about where your Mum wants to be buried? You're not responsible for your parents' happiness - either or both of them - and you're not there to be used to score points, eg "ScotlandUnited has promised that I won't be buried with you and you'll be thrown in a skip"

Is there no one else your mother is close to? It is manipulative, the way she is involving you, and it is damaging your relationship

You must do whatever she wants. I would recommend you get her to put it in writing.

My opinion about all this kind of thing isn’t conventional. In this instance I’d nod and agree now to keep her happy and get her to stop driving you mad about the bloody subject, and then do what will make your life easier when she’s gone (because she won’t be here to know).