DM and her wishes for when she dies

[ScotlandUnited]

Apologies if this posts several times as MN seems glitchy
Will try not to make this too long!
My parents are almost 50 years married, been together 55 years, since teenagers. DF went to university several times, very educated, worked his way up to become a director, won awards, travelled internationally for work etc. DM left school with no qualifications, worked in shops and as a cleaner and also a SAHM. Both parents are great parents.
As they got older, however, this difference in their education and employment experiences caused strains between them. DF's travel caused resentment with DM who was stuck at home. She did have the option to travel with him, but when she did, she was bored, as she did not understand the subject or feel that she fit in. Not really DFs fault. What was DFs fault however, is that he fell in with the after work / lunch time drinking mindset and over the years developed quite a bit of a drink problem that has continued since he retired. He still socialises with old colleages and rarely with my DM. My DM feels like he is a lodger and they have nothing in common anymore. She also struggles with his verbal aggression when he has had too much to drink.
I have basically been my mum's counsellor for years now. have had to listen to her say how much she 'hates' him and wishes he was dead. She shouts at me and dad if we discuss things like politics because its boring. So as I said some things are his fault, some things are not. My DF tends to keep his feelings to himself although they argue a lot, so loudly the neighbours hear and complain.
Staying out of it isn't an option without going NC but I love my parents. There are mostly good times but the bad can be bad. My DSis lives abroad and we don't get on. She's closer to my DF than to DM and I'm closer to DM (don't have much of an option as she treats me like her counsellor!)
Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is because DM is asking me to promise that when she dies, I've to bury her alongside DGF and DGM and not with DF. She says she "doesn't care" what I do with DF when he dies whether he's buried or cremated or "dumped in a skip". Lovely huh? She keeps insisting that I respect her wishes and that she's serious.
So I am torn! I don't want to visit two graves for my parents but I also want to respect my DMs wishes too. I feel manipulated and that my mum is not thinking about me and how he's my dad. I don't get on with my DSis but I reckon she'd tell me to respect DMs wishes even though she was always closer to DF. I don't think my DF knows what DM is asking me and he'd be angry and upset.
DM does keep talking about divorce but its never happened and never will. I'm so tired of it all and it distresses me.
I know DM has a will. I don't know if the will states her burial wishes. If so, can I ignore her burial wishes if its in the will?
WIBU to completely ignore DMs wishes and bury her with DF? or do I have to respect her wishes?

[DuckbilledSplatterPuff]

@ScotlandUnited

DM has a funeral plan to pay for it so she says and she has a will but has confirmed today that where she will be buried is not in the will. She has threatened tonight to put it in her will if I don't agree to her wishes.

DM is late 60s. She could live another 30 years.

@Blossomtoes, you are right, I missed the length of time of the marriage. I read 60s based on the above but I can see it says late 60s, even so, she's still capable of organising her own arrangements.
I agree with @PandaLady - say no to all this drama.

[PandaLady]

Your parents are dysfunctional people in a dysfunctional relationship. They are co-dependent on each other and the drama. They draw you into it because they essentially need an audience.

Just say no. No I don't want to be responsible for where you are buried. No I don't want to listen to you tell me how much you hate my Father. No I don't want to interact with you when you are drunk.

You can't help them - they both pretend you can to keep you enmeshed in their self-created show.

[Blossomtoes]

[quote Daleksatemyshed]@Blossomtoes, where did I get 60 from? Been a long day at work, I have obviously lost the plot, sorry.[/quote]
Happens to us all. 😉

[Psychonabike]

This isn't your problem.

"Sorry mum, I'm not the right person to have this discussion with, after all you are also taking about my father and I can't be expected to favour one parent over the other. You should make formal arrangements with a solicitor for this kind of thing".

and repeat "I'm not the right person to ask this of..." "I can't help you with this" etc etc.

[Daleksatemyshed]

@Blossomtoes, where did I get 60 from? Been a long day at work, I have obviously lost the plot, sorry.

[Blossomtoes]

@Daleksatemyshed

I'm sorry your DM's unhappy and that makes you unhappy in turn but at 60 your DM is hopefully jumping the gun here by a lot of years. A practical note Op- My DM bought her DM's grave but the administators at the cemetary said ownership of the grave ended when the purchaser died- in other words just when you want use of the plot again you don't own it any more. I had the title to the grave moved to me so DM's ashes could rest there. I think if your DM is adamant she wants to be buried with her parents then it would be kind of you to look into the legalities at least.

She’s been married for 50 years - how can she be 60?! She’s at least in her early 70s, possibly much older.

[Daleksatemyshed]

I'm sorry your DM's unhappy and that makes you unhappy in turn but at 60 your DM is hopefully jumping the gun here by a lot of years. A practical note Op- My DM bought her DM's grave but the administators at the cemetary said ownership of the grave ended when the purchaser died- in other words just when you want use of the plot again you don't own it any more. I had the title to the grave moved to me so DM's ashes could rest there. I think if your DM is adamant she wants to be buried with her parents then it would be kind of you to look into the legalities at least.

[aSofaNearYou]

I did not do any of it because it was completely out of order to other people I felt loyalty to. Someone’s death wish does not trump all, especially when it consists of an ongoing pattern of manipulation and represents emotional blackmail

Well I don't know what the unreasonable demands were in your case but in this one, all OPs mum wants is to not be buried with her husband. That's not any harder than burying him would be, and it is a rational thing for her to ask for if she no longer likes or loves him. It's not part of the pattern if manipulation, it should be treated separately. If it's too far for OP to visit then she doesn't have to do so, but that shouldn't be the deciding factor in where someone is buried.

[CovidSmart]

There is also the fact that not doing what her mum would like to see happening after her death is going to play in mimd - what will she tell me in the afterlife if I don’t.
That’s not something to dismiss imo either. For the OP’s own MH at the very least.

[Koolandorthegang]

It sounds like your parents are pretty much already separated but still living under the same roof. They are only living together as it would be messy to organise two places for each to live, splitting assets etc at their stage in life.

I would respect her wishes as if they were separated and living separately, you wouldn’t bury them together, especially if it was not what one or both of them wanted, would you? Do you know how your dad feels about this? What his burial wishes are? Whether he’d even care if your DM was buried with her parents and not him?

[cloudesley37]

@AnotherKrampus

I loathe this kind of toxic manipulation but then I was subjected to something like this a few years ago, which obviously colours my opinion. But I think one needs to put some of the drama aside; when she is dead, she will be none the bloody wiser. When someone very close to me was dying, they became very bitter and totally unreasonable about some stuff but got in a terrible state when I did not want to carry out their wishes. So, I promised (to her god) I would do it after her death, crossing my fingers behind my back. I did not do any of it because it was completely out of order to other people I felt loyalty to. Someone’s death wish does not trump all, especially when it consists of an ongoing pattern of manipulation and represents emotional blackmail. Also, I am an atheist, so the ‘contract’ is unenforceable...

However, I think you need to establish some basic self-care and put boundaries in place. Your mother is incredibly out of order to you, bordering on emotional abuse by subjected you to constant tirades about your father. I have outgrown some loved ones that failed to grow and refused to intellectually challenge themselves, so actually feel for your father, while not excusing his drunken rants. However, her ignorance is not anyone else’s fault. Her overall resentment about you and others talking about interesting subjects is really out of order and she needs to either put up and shut up or do something about it. I think you need to woman up and any time she starts slagging off your father from now on, just tell her firmly that you don't want to hear it. It's really rather shocking that she hasn't built up some sort of social life of her own, to vent elsewhere. Yet, none of that is any of your problem or business.

I agree with this. If anyone comes across as abusive it's your mum.

Do as you see fit when she's gone.

[aSofaNearYou]

@paraffinwax

I don't think people realise how horrible being your mother's confidante for years is. It utterly wears you down. Years and years of conversations about leaving, and yet you know she won't. And will reject anything you offer to help her leave. It's like being stuck in an infinite loop.

Do what makes your life easier. Best of luck.

I think the punishment needs to fit the crime, though. If OP doesn't want to be her mum's confidante, which is entirely fair enough, she should put boundaries in place and discuss that with her. But what she shouldn't do is promise her she won't bury her with her husband for an easy life and then do so. Being laid to rest in a certain place may not be important to everyone, but for many it is a deeply personal thing and a source of great comfort. It's the last thing a person gets to control in their life and it's callous to choose not to bother respecting their memory and wishes.

[paraffinwax]

I don't think people realise how horrible being your mother's confidante for years is. It utterly wears you down. Years and years of conversations about leaving, and yet you know she won't. And will reject anything you offer to help her leave. It's like being stuck in an infinite loop.

Do what makes your life easier. Best of luck.

[CovidSmart]

I wouldn’t go against her funeral arrangement anymore than I would go against her wishes re inheritance.

I would expect her to have something in place if it’s really important to her just like I would expect her to have a will in place if she wants to leave something to specific people.

This is independent from the fact she is using you not just as a counsellor but as her arm to ‘attack’ your dad. You need to massively step back and stop being as involved in her issues.

[foxyroxyyy]

I personally think it would be wrong and cruel to go against her wishes.

[billy1966]

OP,
Stop being your mother's counsellor, it is very bad for you.

Your father is an aggressive drunk...not fun.

I think it would be nice to honour your mothers wishes but whatever.

I feel sorry for their neighbours, your father sounds awful.

Protect yourself.

[Blossomtoes]

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

At the age of just 60 and with funds available and having already been capable of making a will and presumably adding to it, the DM is perfectly capable of organising her funeral plans exactly as she wishes.
She should just get on with it and stop dragging her poor daughter into ongoing feuds. Job done.

DMs behaviour is what’s appalling.

Where do you get age 60? She’s been married for 50 years!

[Dashel]

I’m going to take a slightly different view, if she dies first unless it’s in her will I would let your dad sort it out.

If she dies after your dad, I would talk to your sister about what to do. Once they are gone she should still be alive and your priority should be maintaining a good relationship with her.

[Rhythmisadancer]

you don't have to visit anyone's grave, but if you're planning to I can't think that it would be very nice to think "There you are mum, exactly in the place you didn't want to be". Just bury her where she wants and don't visit.

[quizqueen]

Of course you should follow her requests, as she wishes. How would you feel if she buried you with an abusive husband whom you hated!

[OnlyInYourDreams]

The mother is still alive so is perfectly capable of making her own arrangements. Dragging her daughter into her marriage disputes and expecting her to do as she asks is just toxic behaviour.

As for all the sympathy the mother is getting here, OP said that she throws and smashes things so I hardly think she’s a victim here, the relationship sounds mutually awful.

FWIW given wills aren’t usually read until after a funeral putting something in the will would be pointless as the funeral will have been and gone by then.

At the end of the day it is down to the mother to make the arrangements for the burial with her parents.

Personally I think graves are bloody awful things and I’d be pushing for cremation. And if cremation happened I’d be telling the parent they needn’t expect me to visit their grave so they could be buried wherever they want (and can afford.)

[DuckbilledSplatterPuff]

At the age of just 60 and with funds available and having already been capable of making a will and presumably adding to it, the DM is perfectly capable of organising her funeral plans exactly as she wishes.
She should just get on with it and stop dragging her poor daughter into ongoing feuds. Job done.

DMs behaviour is what’s appalling.

[PurpleRainDancer]

@AnUnoriginalUsername

Of course you should respect her wishes. You'd be happy burying her with someone who makes her feel like shit just because it's more convenient for you? Won't you feel awful everytime you visit the grave knowing she doesn't want to be there? Put them in the same cemetery but different plots, it won't make your life that much more difficult.

This

[Zzelda]

I can't see why you wouldn't go along with her wishes, to be honest. Your reasoning doesn't seem to extend much beyond the fact that you would find it inconvenient and that you think your father wouldn't like it. But have you actually asked him? Do you know whether he even wants to be buried rather than cremated?

If your mother has any sense she will put her wishes in her will anyway and take the decision out of your hands or your father's.

[aSofaNearYou]

All the other things aside, I think it would be extremely immoral to disrespect her wishes and bury her with someone she expressively told you she did not want to be buried with, just so you don't have to go to two different graves. I think that is appalling.