Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

@LostThings totally agree with you

what the Op was proposing was a horrible thing for any parent, male or female, to do

My experience is that when people say ‘male or female’ in this context, they mean ‘female’. It’s the new ‘I’m not racist, but...’

Do you think that men who work for the armed forces shouldn’t have children? And should leave if they decide to? What about men who work as pilots, or for the diplomatic service, or on offshore rigs, or the security services, or any of the other jobs that involve travel and overseas postings (that are predominantly occupied by men)? Would you tell any of those men they are doing a ‘horrible thing’ if they have children and keep their jobs?

Maybe you would. But somehow I doubt it.

Hats off to both the full time working parents and the sahps, I work part time and feel we have the best of both. I genuinely don’t think our kids would get enough from us if we both worked full time (particularly with us both working evening and weekend shifts) and I don’t have the patience and tenacity to be a sahp, I found furlough and homeschool a slog and have sympathy for those who had to wfh as well, not to mention heroic single parents doing it all.

Mn has definitely opened my eyes to the vulnerability of unmarried parents if the worst happened though, (particularly if not working and no claim on the house) even down to lack of bereavement allowances or access to funds if a spouse were to die suddenly.

I think those who can accept that what they are doing is the best for their own family, in their own circumstances, while protecting themselves for a “rainy day” should not need to feel attacked or defensive. Each to their own.

what the Op was proposing was a horrible thing for any parent, male or female, to do

My experience is that when people say ‘male or female’ in this context, they mean ‘female’. It’s the new ‘I’m not racist, but...’

Do you think that men who work for the armed forces shouldn’t have children? And should leave if they decide to? What about men who work as pilots, or for the diplomatic service, or on offshore rigs, or the security services, or any of the other jobs that involve travel and overseas postings (that are predominantly occupied by men)? Would you tell any of those men they are doing a ‘horrible thing’ if they have children and keep their jobs?

Maybe you would. But somehow I doubt it.

@KarmaKarma

what the Op was proposing was a horrible thing for any parent, male or female, to do

My experience is that when people say ‘male or female’ in this context, they mean ‘female’. It’s the new ‘I’m not racist, but...’

Do you think that men who work for the armed forces shouldn’t have children? And should leave if they decide to? What about men who work as pilots, or for the diplomatic service, or on offshore rigs, or the security services, or any of the other jobs that involve travel and overseas postings (that are predominantly occupied by men)? Would you tell any of those men they are doing a ‘horrible thing’ if they have children and keep their jobs?

Maybe you would. But somehow I doubt it.

Righto. So what you’re saying is ‘I hear what you’re saying but I choose to tell you that you ACTUALLY think what I SAY you think’. Lovely.

And comparing me insisting that I’m not secretly sexist, to being an in-denial racist is beyond offensive. Please think twice before you post things like that, it’s revolting.

As the child of a largely absent father in one of the professions you list in your post, fundamentally yes - I do believe that only people who plan to be consistently present in their children’s lives (barring unforeseen events of course, like early death) should have children. I don’t believe that being in the military and disappearing for six months at a time, into sometimes highly dangerous situations, is a positive thing for any child to have to cope with.

That’s why I’m always frustrated when female posters say things like they had to give up work against their will because their male partner travels so much for work which is totally unavoidable. It’s really not - it’s within almost anyone’s power to move jobs into something that can work with family life. It’s just that many men don’t choose to whereas women often do.

Choose not to believe me if you like but you’re literally inventing something and insisting you’re right.

I do believe you when you say that you’d have ‘roasted’ a father as well! I just don’t believe that every other poster would have. Some, like you though, certainly.

@FloconDeNeige

what the Op was proposing was a horrible thing for any parent, male or female, to do

It wasn’t a horrible thing to do. It wasn’t ideal, I agree. And I agree with you that unless it’s really necessary, it’s not a great idea for either parent with very small children. But the roasting she got was largely due to the fact she was the mother proposing it.

I don’t want to get into an argument but I don’t really appreciate you telling me that you know my opinions better than me. I am telling you factually that as one of the posters who ‘roasted’ that OP (and by that I mean answered the question that she asked honestly) it was not because she is the child’s mother. I would have said exactly the same to a man. Choose not to believe me if you like but you’re literally inventing something for fun.

@FloconDeNeige

what the Op was proposing was a horrible thing for any parent, male or female, to do

It wasn’t a horrible thing to do. It wasn’t ideal, I agree. And I agree with you that unless it’s really necessary, it’s not a great idea for either parent with very small children. But the roasting she got was largely due to the fact she was the mother proposing it.

I don’t want to get into an argument but I don’t really appreciate you telling me that you know my opinions better than me. I am telling you factually that as one of the posters who ‘roasted’ that OP (and by that I mean answered the question that she asked honestly) it was not because she is the child’s mother. I would have said exactly the same to a man. Choose not to believe me if you like but you’re literally inventing something for fun.

Actually on that thread many posters including myself were at pains to point out that what the Op was proposing was a horrible thing for any parent, male or female, to do.

Do you think men who are pilots, or work in the armed forces, or on offshore rigs, or for the diplomatic service, or any one of the many jobs that involve postings and travel and time away from home, shouldn’t have children?

My experience when people say ‘male or female’ is that they actually just mean ‘female’

Actually on that thread many posters including myself were at pains to point out that what the Op was proposing was a horrible thing for any parent, male or female, to do.

Do you think men who are pilots, or work in the armed forces, or on offshore rigs, or for the diplomatic service, or any one of the many jobs that involve postings and travel and time away from home, shouldn’t have children?

Personally being a SAHM was the best time of my life, but of course I realise it's not for everyone and I would never put anyone down for using a child minder or nursery. I went back to work when my DC started school. I was lucky that my DP could support us on one salary, but also I saved up for the time when I would be a SAHM, as I had always planned to do this, so I could still contribute a little bit. I have seen posts putting down all sorts of lifestyles on here. Some people just can't seem to accept that others are entitled to make choices that are different to their own. There's a general lack of acceptance / tolerance on here at times.

I was a SAHM for 3 years. Not through choice really (twins) it's hard work that nobody sees as work and my husband's not a major earner (30k) so we struggled financially - but we have a low mortgage because it's an affordable area of the UK and we got help with a deposit.

Anyway, it was a struggle. Financially, physically, mentally. Once they turned 3 and we were eligible for the subsidised 30 hours (they're not free, as we found out), I got myself a part time job. I am much happier and my life is easier. The kids go to nursery and they have come along quickly recently (I believe because of nursery).

Recently, I got myself a full time job offer but the lack of confidence in myself is the most shocking thing about it. And the longer you leave it, the worse it gets. I'd say to any woman planning on staying home to consider this aspect carefully.

I was a SAHM for 3 years. Not through choice really (twins) it's hard work that nobody sees as work and my husband's not a major earner (30k) so we struggled financially - but we have a low mortgage because it's an affordable area of the UK and we got help with a deposit.

Anyway, it was a struggle. Financially, physically, mentally. Once they turned 3 and we were eligible for the subsidised 30 hours (they're not free, as we found out), I got myself a part time job. I am much happier and my life is easier. The kids go to nursery and they have come along quickly recently (I believe because of nursery).

Recently, I got myself a full time job offer but the lack of confidence in myself is the most shocking thing about it. And the longer you leave it, the worse it gets. I'd say to any woman planning on staying home to consider this aspect carefully.

I’m getting déjà-vu!

I’m getting déjà-vu!

@paloma10

The posts about financially abusive husbands are as much from women who work as otherwise - eg. the husband has separate finances; they pay 50/50 for bills even though she earns considerably less, etc etc. There are married women who have to go back to work sooner than they are ready because the husband won’t give them a penny towards anything - including the baby! This is financial abuse.

I’ve been a SAHM for about 18 years. If I had been financially vulnerable, I would not have been a SAHM. It really is as simple as that. Being a SAHM is a total non-issue in the real world as I experience it. If I think of my street now, I’d say 80% if women are SAH, with kids ranging from little ones to those who have left home. It’s the norm here. My 4 kids have all gone / are going through school and I must have met hundreds of SAHMs over the years and it’s simply not an issue or a topic of discussion. Nobody cares and I can’t think of one occasion when anyone has ever asked. Yet, on here, people have such very strange ideas about SAHMs and think we all need advice. It’s really odd.

It's exactly like that where I live nobody cares what other mothers choose to do or questions it

When my sister was trying for a baby she was worried about people judging her for being an older mother (in her early 40s). I told her the truth; it doesn't matter how old you are, whether you work or not, breast feed or formula, literally everything you do as a mother (and a woman!) will be judged lacking by someone else. Stop expending your energy on worrying about it and crack on and do things your own way.

@TheKeatingFive

Do any of you think men tear each other down and debate their life choices? I doubt it.

This comes down to there simply not being the same pressure on men to be stellar employees AND be there for their children at every juncture. If we could recognise that impossible expectations are being placed on women, then that would be a good starting point for discussion. No matter what we do, we're 'failing' according to someone.

The company I work for offers 4 months of parental leave to fathers as well as mothers after a birth. This is not standard here in the US. The first time my coworker took it, a lot of shade was thrown. When he took it for the second time the negativity loudly expressed by male colleagues was such that he ended up leaving the company.

Tearing others down for their choices is not an exclusively feminine thing.

Choose not to believe me if you like but you’re literally inventing something and insisting you’re right.

I do believe you when you say that you’d have ‘roasted’ a father as well! I just don’t believe that every other poster would have. Some, like you though, certainly.

Okay, I concede. People are arseholes to ALL parents, and parents are arseholes to each other.

The first time my coworker took it, a lot of shade was thrown. When he took it for the second time the negativity loudly expressed by male colleagues was such that he ended up leaving the company.

It’s interesting that it’s come to the fore as expectations around Dad’s roles increase. Hopefully it will become obvious to them too that you can’t be a full time alpha parent and a totally committed employee at the same time.

0kay I stand corrected. People are arseholes to ALL parents and parents are arseholes to each other.

Choose not to believe me if you like but you’re literally inventing something and insisting you’re right.

I do believe you when you say that you’d have ‘roasted’ a father too! I just don’t believe that every other poster would have too. Some, like you though, certainly.