To refuse to sell this lady a puppy?

[ensete]

I have a litter of working golden retrievers, i collated a waiting list before I had our bitch mated and I spent a long time speaking to interested parties to find the best homes I could do - this is how I have dealt with previous litters.
Both parents are working gundogs and I stated that whilst I didn't need working homes I would only consider active homes with the space to accommodate a large working breed.
One of the families who is on my list contacted me today just to say "hi, my husband and I have decided to split up, I will still be wanting the puppy but my address will now by Flat4a XYZ Town"
I messaged back to enquire what sort of set up it was and she confirmed it's a flat on the top floor with no garden or outside space. I've confirmed with her that I'm not happy to sell a puppy to a home without any outside space and I will refund her deposit immediately and advertise the puppy. She's refusing to give me her bank details and says she wants the pup and will take legal action if required. My argument is that the home I vetted is no longer the home she's offering and therefore I'm not willing to sell her the puppy. To me, changing the home on offer isn't dissimilar to her changing the amount of money she is willing to pay for the pup. The homes I find for puppies are very important to me, I'm not a big breeder, I've just had a litter for my own purposes to keep the next generation and I need to know my puppies are going to the right sort of home.

I have a working GR, I was on a waiting list for a year and the breeder insisted she became my FB friend during that time so that she could see if I was a suitable person to have one of her pups. Like you @ensete, she only breeds when she wants another dog for herself. She had grandma, mum, mum's brother and kept a bitch from the litter. She worked them all.

I was only allowed to have one because I wanted to do Obedience, which, pre-COVID, we were enjoying every week and had started Agility. I've had retrievers for over 30yrs, I know what I'm doing re. house training, I would not have a WGR puppy in a flat, nor would I let any pup I was responsible for go to one. Well done for saying no.

Have you sent the cheque

You’re absolutely not being unreasonable! The breeder we got our boy off 4 years ago came to our home to check we had a decent enough set-up for him! A flat is not ideal

Good for you OP. I've had a lot of big dogs and it wouldn't sit right for me either. They need indoor space and outdoor space.

I have a golden retriever and I couldn't even contemplate how he'd cope in any flat or dwelling without a decent amount of outdoor space.
Stick to your guns and send a check to her new address ( get it signed for too ) and let her attempt to take you to court.
I'm assuming that no piece of paper/contract has been signed.

@Boomclaps

I guess the thing you want to check is it he flat a stopgap, we spent a few months in a grotty 3rd floor bed sit with no outside space on a main road with a dog due to emergency works. Yeah it was a pita but we very quickly moved to a 3 bed big garden open plan lovely home!

My guess is that either A) she's bought it and will be there for a long time B) it's rented, the landlord doesn't know about the puppy, but she took it as she had no alternatives and won't for some time to come

The first 16 weeks of a puppy's life are the most important for socialisation, along with house training and so on. It's not a time to be messing about in stopgap accommodation! You might get away with it with an adult dog who's already house trained (I did - so I'm not pearl clutching about dogs in flats) but it's unrealistic with a puppy.

The would be purchaser needs to get herself settled in dog friendly accommodation and then search for a new puppy. It's not a lifetime ban on dog ownership, it's just not the right time of her life to be getting one.

Maybe ask the RSPCA or Dogs Trust for advice.

Ask for a copy of her rental agreement , then once you know who the landlord is request written permission off the landlord to say she can have a large dog in the flat. I can guarantee she won’t! Our local rescue requires to see who own the property and then written permission if renting.

Be sure she has actually moved before sending the cheque.

You sound like a darn good Breeder to me OP.

Good on you for ensuring this puppy will be homed in the best possible environment. 🌸

I have little knowledge of dogs so wouldn't disagree with the great majority of posters who say that a flat is unsuitable for this breed.

But that's sort of missing the point (or one of the points) which is that the buyer is threatening to sue you, presumably for breach of contract.

A contract clearly exists between you: she's offered to buy Dog A for B pounds, and you've accepted. You now want to pull out of that contract.

The questions I would be asking are a) how likely is it that she will follow through with this threat. Answer: probably not very likely as litigation is expensive and she's enough on her plate with her pending divorce. But it's not impossible - she might be a wealthy lawyer who's looking for a legal fight to deal with her stress. Or a crazy person!

Then, b) if she does sue you, will you win? Partly, this will depend on whether you can show that it was clear that the standard of her accommodation was a contractual term. I'm assuming there was no written contract and ultimately it would be for the courts to decide this point. If it gets that far.

I mean no disrespect to PPs, but you might do better taking a lawyer's advice than advice from dog-lovers. (Maybe a dog-loving lawyer?)

YANBU.... well done...animal welfare first. Do as others have said with refunding deposit

Totally agree with you. Let her threaten you with a pointless small claims court proceeding which won’t have any traction seeing that you have offered her her deposit back abd she has refused 🙄

Tony, the erstwhile buyer has changed the terms of the contract, so it's not valid any more. And the OP has clearly already offered the money back, and can easily do so again with an email/letter to provide a paper trail.

YADNBU but from a contractually point of view you’re on shaky ground. You accepted a deposit.

Sneakily you’d have been better off saying it had died!!!

Hopefully she’ll come to her sense!!

Just to clarify - they do not have any children, it was another poster who suggested that scenario, there are just two of them and a flat coat (who I very selfishly hope stays with the husband who has the land!)

I don't purport to have every scenario covered, obviously people's circumstances do change and I can't control a dogs fate once I've sold it - I know that. What I say to everyone I've sold a puppy to, is that I will always always have them back for what they paid for the pup if their circumstances did change and they couldn't keep them. I keep in touch with all of my litters, I look after them for some people when they go on holiday (pre covid!) and I like to think I cover off all bases. What could be and what is, is really the difference here - I can't change the what may be but I can change this, and I will.
Thank you for all your advice ☺️ cheque book ordered, and I will send with a firm but polite and sympathetic letter because going through a divorce must be a real shitter, especially through a lockdown and with a puppy on the horizon.
She sent me her new address as I will need it for the KC change of ownership papers and the microchip.

She will not have a leg to stand on if she tries legal action.

Your agreement with her was based on her living in a home suitable for a large dog. This is no longer the case, so your contract is void.

@TonyChestnut the implied contract would be me agreeing to sell her a puppy on account of the home she confirmed she could offer it - those circumstances have changed and are fairly fundamental to the agreement to sell?

“Kids crying now, thanks”

Will be her next response.

@AuntieStella

OP: YABVVU to be talking about 5week old puppies without any pictures!

Absolutely this with bells on 🐶

Tell her the pup has died and give her the cheque sent to her new address. She has no proof .

She only put down deposit. E.g. on pets 4 homes deposit can be cancelled and returned bu either party so i assume you would be able the same. Not sure what legal action she can take, is it a verbal agreement?
Is she after a female puppy, perhaps she intended to breed for extra incomedisregarding unsuitable conditions.

YANBU OP. I wish there were more breeders like you.

Don't get me wrong, morally I think you're doing the right thing. But the problem with implied terms is that both parties often view them differently. If there's disagreement only the courts can decide.

We don't know that the buyer has changed the terms of the contract because, I presume, there is no written contract. What she's done is move to a home you, and plenty others, think is unsuitable. (I don't mean to be goady, but none of us has seen the new flat.)

I've spent my career working with the law, but I'm no lawyer. I suspect none of your previous posters is.

Whatever, I hope you have the outcome that's fair for you and your dog.

@LadyWhistledownsQuill

Of course YANBU. I'd make the same decision.

As you're returning the deposit, she hasn't got a legal leg to stand on. If she wants to take you to court, that's fine - she won't get far.

Let her sue - she'll get nowhere.

You vetted the home to the best of your ability and it seemed appropriate - had she lived in an upper floor flat then you would have just told her "Sorry - no." and that would have been your right. It is now your right to refuse to sell as she has effectively changed the conditions regarding the sale.

Your responsibility is to the dog you have bred, and TBH I can't imagine she has ANY idea how much exercise and mental stimulation a working strain of any sundog requires. We have three working-type spaniels and they get between three and four hours free-running exercise a day, plus a half-hour on-leash walk before bed. And they would have more if it was up to them.

They also have "brain games" at home, finding treats and toys etc.

What does she intend to do with the dog when she is out at work? Shut him in a cage all day? And then there will be at least a couple of nights a week when she is out socialising as lockdown ends. Poor thing will go crazy!

You can send her a cheque, but can't force her to cash it, unfortunately, but the fact that you are offering her deposit back means that she will get nowhere if she attempts to sue. She won't - she'll move on to some less scrupulous breeder and will end up with a miserable, unsocialised dog which is gradually driven mad by boredom and lack of exercise.

Yes I think you’d argue that it was a clear condition of the contract that a suitable home could be offered. And I think you’d be right, legally and morally.