To refuse to sell this lady a puppy?

[ensete]

I have a litter of working golden retrievers, i collated a waiting list before I had our bitch mated and I spent a long time speaking to interested parties to find the best homes I could do - this is how I have dealt with previous litters.
Both parents are working gundogs and I stated that whilst I didn't need working homes I would only consider active homes with the space to accommodate a large working breed.
One of the families who is on my list contacted me today just to say "hi, my husband and I have decided to split up, I will still be wanting the puppy but my address will now by Flat4a XYZ Town"
I messaged back to enquire what sort of set up it was and she confirmed it's a flat on the top floor with no garden or outside space. I've confirmed with her that I'm not happy to sell a puppy to a home without any outside space and I will refund her deposit immediately and advertise the puppy. She's refusing to give me her bank details and says she wants the pup and will take legal action if required. My argument is that the home I vetted is no longer the home she's offering and therefore I'm not willing to sell her the puppy. To me, changing the home on offer isn't dissimilar to her changing the amount of money she is willing to pay for the pup. The homes I find for puppies are very important to me, I'm not a big breeder, I've just had a litter for my own purposes to keep the next generation and I need to know my puppies are going to the right sort of home.

I’ve got a spaniel and live in a flat. It’s bloody hard work with a house trained adult dog, there is absolutely no way I could do this with a puppy. We go out about every 3-4 hours for walks and toilet breaks. If my living circumstances are the same when I lose my old boy I won’t get another dog.

Unfortunately I separated from my husband and couldn’t afford a house with a garden. Not the dog’s fault and I wasn’t prepared to rehome him because of it. I committed to him for the duration of his life and that hasn’t changed.

YANBU and what legal action could she possibly take anyway? The fact that she’s trying to intimidate you rings alarm bells for me and I absolutely wouldn’t sell her your puppy.

Totally understand why you wouldn't want to sell the puppy to her. But not all flats are equal! We are lucky enough to live in a big flat which my husbands employer provides for us (job is abroad) it's on the 3rd floor and has a balcony that runs the length of the flat. We probably have more floor space than most 3 bed houses in the UK. We have a German shepherd puppy and because of the balcony house training has been pretty straight forward. We also have several big parks within 5/10 minutes walking distance and she gets two good, energetic walks a day. During the day she is often found on the balcony watching the street below (it's a busy street, always something going on) or the neighboring apartments - all of them have dogs chilling on the balcony too (everyone seems to have dogs here) so there's plenty to keep her interested. Because the kitchen, living and dining room are all open plan she has plenty of space to safely run and play, which she often does with our DS - chasing the ball down the corridors etc. I'm also at home all day so she gets plenty of attention, training and fuss. If anyone had said that we'd have a large dog in a flat a year ago I'd have said they were mad, but we have one very happy puppy in one now which has lots of space for her to grow. So maybe further investigation into how big her flat is and whether it has a balcony or not might be worth doing?

@Viviennemary

I dong reallh approve of this commercialised breeding for money.

Neither do I. Not really relevant to this thread though, is it?

OP, I'm with you. I'm not sure I'd bother faffing around with a cheque either - I'd ask her how she wants the deposit returned in writing and leave the ball in her court (Im not saying I'd keep it, but the onus is on her to accept it).

And I third the request for a puppy picture!

@Boomclaps

I guess the thing you want to check is it he flat a stopgap, we spent a few months in a grotty 3rd floor bed sit with no outside space on a main road with a dog due to emergency works. Yeah it was a pita but we very quickly moved to a 3 bed big garden open plan lovely home!

True, but 3 months is enough to make a problem puppy out of the most well bred one.

Besides, she is either the owner of the flat and therefore staying there longer than short term or the most incredibly lucky woman in the planet for finding a landlord who would welcome a big dog on a top floor, or more likely, the flat owner has not been consulted about this.

I had the luck of rehoming a 6m puppy from someone who was divorcing but thought it was a good idea to get a puppy in the middle of the drama.... the puppy came to us almost feral, very destructive and it took 3 trainers and hundreds of pounds to sort.

The dog was lovely after 2 years but honestly, if the breeder had known and refused to sell, it would have saved everyone and the puppy a lot of problems.

definitely not and theres nothing legally she can do

I have a dog in a flat, as do many of the people we know (we live in London so most people are in flats). BUT we live within a minute from several parks, and along the river and canal walks and we're really active so our dog is run several times a day and goes to a field daycare 3x a week. All the people in our area in flats that we know from dog walking take really good care of their dogs and walk and run them loads. So I guess I'm saying it maybe depends on the circumstances. If its a rented flat, I'd say a definite no, because its so hard to rent dog friendly flats. I'm so grateful the rescue did a home check and allowed us to have our dog though, we love him to bits. They are able to put in more conditions however - we had to send them details of the daycare we had booked, details of our vet etc.

Ultimately though its entirely your decision, and she has no recourse if her circumstances have changed and you aren't comfortable. You are doing the best for your little pups, and you can't send them to a home if you aren't comfortable and think they won't have a good lifestyle

@Dullardmullard

Write her a cheque and send to her address by recorded delivery.

Your pup your choice who you’d be selling too.

I’d be the same and I have a giant breed

This. just this, make sure you send it recorded and keep the receipt and proof it's been received.

You are not obligated to sell her the puppy so long as you return her deposit.

OP clearly stated I'm not a big breeder, I've just had a litter for my own purposes to keep the next generation

Very shitty time to breed a litter given all the lockdown issues - and it's very shitty to rehome any dog without doing thorough home checks which it doesn't sound like the OP has done.

I'd love the puppy!

Have (mostly) had Golden Retrievers and haven't gotten a new dog since last DD (darling dog) died as was too heartbroken

Buying a puppy is not the same as buying a TV or some other object. It's a living thing and it needs an adequate home.

I would not sell her the puppy and actually think you've dodged a bullet by not selling her one. She obviously doesn't have the dog's best interests at heart here.

@Floralnomad

YANBU but you shouldn’t have taken deposits off people until the pups were born .

Why?

Having just reread your OP, I don't know if she'll be in the right headspace to manage a new very active puppy. In a flat with our adult dog we have to do 8am walks and 11pm walks for loo breaks, plus a walk every four hours. Its fine as there are two adults here, but trying to do this plus all the extra loo breaks for a puppy with one adult also looking after a family I don't think would work and the poor puppy won't get enough attention. I would def say no in these circumstances

You are absolutely in the right! I wish all breeders were as caring and responsible as you, and not just in it for the money as so many seem to be!

Hope you manage to resolve it, and find a more suitable home for the pup!

@TwoAndAnOnion what if there are less pups than predicted , all girls when people want boys , something happens and they all die . Much more sensible to have a waiting list then once the pups are born sort out what you’ve got to sell and then asking for deposits when people actually know what they are getting .

My dd went through the threat of legal action to get a dog back when she split with a partner. He never paid for the dog, never paid vets bills and never walked him. He threatened legal action and continually harassed her with texts and demands for his return to his "rightful" owner. A sob story all over social media.

What happened was that the Police took him to court for harassment and he was found guilty. The dog was referred to in proceedings and the Judge actually said "I don't care about the bloody dog" as in it was just a justification for harassment. The private legal proceedings never happened but was worrying at the time.

I would just return the deposit as advised on here. You are the owner of the pups not her. On what basis would she be taking legal proceedings. It would cost her a fortune and I bet any decent solicitor would tell her she was on a hiding to nothing. Her circumstances now make her home unsuitable for the breed of dog. End of.

You are a responsible breeder. If she continues pestering you and threatening you, then you will have to report the matter and I would tell her that.

shes being bonkers and not thinking of the dog. You are quite right not to sell her a puppy.

What 'legal action' is the silly bint planning to take?

Not on your Nelly would I let her have a pup. If she had explained about the flat but pointed out proximity to somewhere to walk said pup and how she planned to deal with the situation, then fair enough.

Her talk of legal action would rule her right out immediately.

Do you have the husbands contact details? Maybe he will be able to give you the bank details.

Oh brilliant advice RE the cheque, thank you - I haven't used a cheque for years but I've just ordered a book from my bank so I will do that ☺️ I absolutely won't keep her deposit, that isn't the right thing to do and to be fair to her she did tell me she had moved.

I don't personally visit homes but I have done multiple teams meetings with everyone who sounded as though they had either the knowledge or experience to have a pup from me. I've had the whole house tour through teams and whilst people could go to great lengths to be deceitful, to a certain extent I have to trust them. I kept in touch with everyone from my previous litter 5 years ago from my older girl and we have regular meet ups.
I've chosen a sire from a very busy field trials champion and as such, coupled with me knowing my own bitch very well, the chances are that some if not all of this litter will have a very big energy drive that takes a lot of physical and mental exercise in order to turn energy into something productive rather than destructive. I don't like the idea of any dogs being without access to outside space, it just doesn't sit right with me personally. I'm sure there are plenty of dogs that would cope well in those living situations but having owned and trained working retrievers for almost 20 years, I promise you it isn't sensible or fair to a big dog. Today I am working with the doors open and both of them are sleeping on the cold slabs outside happy as Larry.
I'm not a big breeder, I've already said that. I do not breed for the money.

Good for you!

YANBU. Well done for putting the puppy’s interests first.

If only there were more breeders like you OP. She can’t sue you for anything. Sorry to hear you have been put in this position.

I don’t think she will take legal action for one minute.. do not sell her that dog she is completely irresponsible.
I agree send cheque and a letter outlining your reasons.. secondly MAKE SURE you photo copy this with the cheque attached. So if there is an issue you have the evidence.