To be cross with our childminder?

[ranging]

Name changed.

DD has been going to the same childminder since she was 8 months and she is now 2.5. She absolutely loves it there and she's very kind and friendly, I get lots of crafts home that DD does and they go out and do a lot.

DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

When I picked her up on Friday, the childminder said that she had taken her shoes and socks off in the car and was refusing to put them back on, so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on. She apparently got upset by this and then finally allowed her to put her shoes back on.

I was a bit taken aback by this, AIBU to tell her I am not happy about this at all? I'm not sure if this is an ok tactic to use with a toddler but I never would and don't want anyone else to treat her like that either.

If the childminder doesn’t have the time for that, time to find a new childminder.

Can you really not see why your expectations are utterly unreasonable, when a childminder is likely to have a school run etc for other children and cannot spend time negotiating with a 2.5 year old who refuses shoes?

You have not suggested anything so far that works for anyone caring for more than one child and OP is unlikely to find a childminder with no other children, school runs, routines to keep, meals to cook etc.

@WaltzingBetty

So if the kid was an elderly person with dementia, we wouldn’t call this bullying? Sure.

Do you think elderly people with dementia are never lifted or restrained for their own personal care or other people's safety?

I don’t think they’re lifted onto cold, muddy ground for refusing to put their shoes on, no. Do you?

@Pumperthepumper the reason that it's far harder to care from someone with advanced dementia than it is to care for a small child operating at the same level of understanding, is that the child is constantly learning and making progress, while the person with dementia cannot.

In the example in the OP, the child was put in a position where they learned something very quickly, and responded accordingly. The person with dementia can no longer learn. in fact every day they lose cognition instead of gaining it.

They simply cannot be treated in the same way. And I'm pretty sure you know that, really.

Placemarking for the OP and pumperthepumper to return in a couple of years time with “My child is demand avoidant”, then in 15-20 years “My child refuses to get a job”.

She could have carried her in. She could have explained to her that she has to put her shoes on so they can walk indoors. She could have made it into a game - see if you can put them on before I get X out of the car!

I’m sure the childcare professional never thought of doing that

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

she can’t meet the needs of the child she’s paid to look after

She has met the child's needs. Your ludicrous suggestion of staying in the car would only work if the adult has no one else to care for, so really you mean the OP will need a one to one nanny for their child.
Right.

She hasn’t. She had to make her stand in the mud with no shoes on to make a point, and as we agreed, if that had been an elderly person with the same cognitive process, we’d call that abuse.

Think pumper really has lost the plot.

@JustLyra

So if the kid was an elderly person with dementia, we wouldn’t call this bullying? Sure.

You are comparing apples with oranges.

Children learning why we do things is a completely different scenario to an adult with a medical condition and lack of understanding.

They’re really not that different. One still has to develop the cognitive ability, one has lost it. Punishments to either won’t make them learn faster or remember easier.

I’m sure the childcare professional never thought of doing that

Indeed.

The thread is actually full of examples showing how little respect people have for childcare professionals.

Can you honestly not the the difference between say, being lifted onto the toilet and being lifted as a punishment? You must do.
Not really - if the child doesn't want to be lifted then their experience is the same. It's only your reasoning that has changed. Surely you should just let them piss on the floor instead?
At least that's what your reasoning suggests.

And never hold their hands when crossing rads, or restrain them in car seats or buggies. After all forcing them to do things they don't want is punishment isn't it?

Great to see childminders being bashed again, dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.
The Op has two choices really either see it for what it is and a lesson learned or remove her child and care for her herself. I'm still struggling to get my head around the fact the Op would be happier for her child to be restrained in a buggy for god knows how long rather than allowing the child to see the consequences of their actions within seconds.

@JustLyra

Are they forced to stand outside by their carer with no shoes on while other people cheerlead the carer for not giving in? Come on.

The child wasn’t forced. She chose not to have shoes.

She was lifted out of the car, and put on the ground.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Think pumper really has lost the plot.

Think pumpers just a GF or a bit dim

Completely and utterly incomparable to a person with dementia.

Young children are sponges and learn new things every single day. How can you possibly compare cognitively between these two groups? Ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous.

@WaltzingBetty

Did I say ‘lock them in a car’? I said I’d make it into a game, I’d spend time sorting it out. If the childminder doesn’t have the time for that, time to find a new childminder.

Which the OP is welcome to do.
But she won't
As she knows she's unreasonable - as are you - if you want someone to look after your child according to your rules then do it yourself, but don't pay a professional and micromanage them

If you can’t pay a professional to know the restrictions of a 2.5 year old, you can find a better professional. That’s very easy.

They’re really not that different. One still has to develop the cognitive ability, one has lost it. Punishments to either won’t make them learn faster or remember easier.

They’re completely different. Developing and learning is completely different to lost ability.
It’s also not punishing to allow a child to learn, safely, from their choices. It’s learning in a natural way.

If you can’t pay a professional to know the restrictions of a 2.5 year old, you can find a better professional. That’s very easy.

And the OP is welcome to do that. But if she was planning to do so she likely wouldn't have started thus thread
Repetition is boring

One still has to develop the cognitive ability, one has lost it. Punishments to either won’t make them learn faster or remember easier.

The child was not punished. She was shown what the consequence of not wearing shoes would be, and learned within seconds that she would prefer to wear them. This was a perfect example of learning quickly.

She was lifted out of the car, and put on the ground.

Having made the choice to not wear shoes...

Being lifted to the ground is nothing remarkable. Most 2.5 year olds are lifted out of cars because of the height.

She was lifted out of the car, and put on the ground.

Which is how she'd exit the car every time. She wanted to get out of the car with no shoes, for her wish, realised that was silly in these circumstances!

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

If the childminder doesn’t have the time for that, time to find a new childminder.

Can you really not see why your expectations are utterly unreasonable, when a childminder is likely to have a school run etc for other children and cannot spend time negotiating with a 2.5 year old who refuses shoes?

You have not suggested anything so far that works for anyone caring for more than one child and OP is unlikely to find a childminder with no other children, school runs, routines to keep, meals to cook etc.

So put up with a childminder who doesn’t understand the cognitive development of the children she’s paid to look after because it might be tricky to find a better one? My suggestion is: find a better one who won’t punish the 2.5 year old for something she can’t control.

Would have done the same as a parent and would do the same with dgs who I provide childcare for. Your dd experienced why it was necessary to wear socks and shoes that's all, she wasn't made to run barefoot over hot coals.

@midnightstar66

She was lifted out of the car, and put on the ground.

Which is how she'd exit the car every time. She wanted to get out of the car with no shoes, for her wish, realised that was silly in these circumstances!

Oh no that's bullying, giving and punishment!

You must never lift a toddler out of a car!
@Pumperthepumper says so

[quote saraclara]@Pumperthepumper the reason that it's far harder to care from someone with advanced dementia than it is to care for a small child operating at the same level of understanding, is that the child is constantly learning and making progress, while the person with dementia cannot.

In the example in the OP, the child was put in a position where they learned something very quickly, and responded accordingly. The person with dementia can no longer learn. in fact every day they lose cognition instead of gaining it.

They simply cannot be treated in the same way. And I'm pretty sure you know that, really.[/quote]
That’s not true though. They don’t learn: aha shoes on even when I don’t want to! They learn ‘punishment’ but they don’t know why they’re being punished. They can’t, at two. If you think the Op’s kid will do something different tomorrow because of this, you’re wrong.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Think pumper really has lost the plot.

That’s rude.

So put up with a childminder who doesn’t understand the cognitive development of the children she’s paid to look after because it might be tricky to find a better one? My suggestion is: find a better one who won’t punish the 2.5 year old for something she can’t control.

So you expect that childminders should never lift toddlers out of cars because that's punishing and forcing?

Good luck with that