AIBU to think Eminem is the greatest rapper of all time?

[canary1]

Just going through those early great albums, The Slim Shady, The Marshall Mathers LP, the Eminem show...and thinking what a genius. I’ve also had some glasses of wine so am rambling. But those brilliant lyrics. Sigh....anyone agree?

Unpopular opinion but why is rap and similar the choice music of gang members ?

Someone said, no idea who, that N.W.A. were gangsters playing at being musicians while Public Enemy were musicians pretending to be gangsters and that's the reasons N.W.A. is so raw while Public Enemy is so musically brilliant. I don't know if that's true but certainly Public Enemy holds up musically. I mean they met at university!

I'd be interested to read up a bit more on the history of rap. I'd imagine some part of it is the fact that it's conducive to youths standing around in groups and 'clashing' as opposed to traditional genres which need instruments and places to practice where you can fit a drumkit and PA, etc.

@MrsTroutfire

Meanwhile a black male says some rhymes on a record and it's taken as his immediate first person testimony from the frontline and should be admissible in court as evidence of his behaviour.

You're clearly not familiar with gangsta rap and the recent trend of UK drill, where they actually really do the things they talk about. In the latter it's quite clear they do because a large number of the MCs die from being stabbed each year and the lyrics are full of references to traceable gang stabbings - to the point they now all wear balaclavas etc (no face no case) and 'censor' their music to avoid repercussions (e.g. "shh got shh with his rambo" etc).

I'm not really judging as it is what it is and is usually the product of a specific socioeconomic background, but it's silly to pretend that these things aren't really happening. It's one of the principle factors in the current knife crime epidemic.

Hehe if you knew me you'd know that accusation (that I'm not familiar with UK drill) would be risible if not contemptible.

I just don't subscribe to the theory that a major factor of "urban" violence is rap music.

I think it amplifies things sure. But before drill there were plenty of problems - look at the history of any ends in London and you'll know that people have found ways to identify, rile and target their "opps" long before YouTube, Snapchat and drill.

It's too easy and too lazy to blame music. Politicians do this, privileged folk tend to do it; but the streets know how it is and who is doing what.

In fact I would go on to argue that a lot of rap music is documenting the facts of people's reality. If you want your rap to talk about different things, then reality has to change.

Yes the "trap" idiom (manufacturing and selling drugs from a designated house known as the "bando") is so tired because everyone is adopting it even if they have never actually been out there trapping.

But a lot of people are just saying the reality of what they see around them, their fears, their hopes of getting out. I'm fine with that - why should they be expected to elevate themselves somehow just to please pearl-clutchers looking for a person to blame for the "evil music".

Didn’t he just rap about his mum and his ex all the time?

@MrsTroutfire

I'd be interested to read up a bit more on the history of rap. I'd imagine some part of it is the fact that it's conducive to youths standing around in groups and 'clashing' as opposed to traditional genres which need instruments and places to practice where you can fit a drumkit and PA, etc.

The 'jumpers for goalposts' of music, if you will.

Tupac & Biggie for me.

Although Big Daddy Kane is also up there too IMO.

In those types of demographics you get rooted out pretty quick if you're a faker or don't 'walk the walk'.

By which I mean you'll find yourself in hot water pretty quick if you start calling out certified gangs in your local vicinity and aren't able to 'back it up'.

Nope, that title goes to Tupac Shakur

@Littleroundsponge

I agree, he is in a different league to a lot of other rappers. So talented!

You mean the originators of the genre? 🙄

Very clever lyricist but it's Tupac and Biggie for me

@Shieldmaiden01

Nope, that title goes to Tupac Shakur

As a serious rap aficionado can someone tell me why Tupac Shakur is venerated by so many as one of the greatest?

His name has come up more times than anyone else on here. Why?

I tend to think of him as someone whose legend far exceeds his discography. His musical output is thin in places, he perhaps had one good album (Me Against The World), one sprawling album that could have been great if cut down to one CD, and then three albums of very middling stuff with poor quality control on producers.

Tupac is more a kind of visual cipher for what "rapper" should look like. And I think as an accomplished actor he ended up doing this deliberately - bandana tied on head, leather dungarees, fierce disposition, but underneath all that was a far more complex disposition than his posturing of later years allowed.

His music just doesn't live up to the legend and image, but the legend and image is what seems to carry him back into this debate time and again.

I just can't put him on a pedestal because he once recorded "Brenda's Got a Baby".

I'd argue his one-contemporary Snoop Dogg has more right to a greatness tag with his recording output than Tupac.

And I don't think things would have improved if he had lived - "Makaveli (The Don Killuminati - 7 Day Theory) was patchy as hell

Tupac was not great, I think you've been quite generous in your assessment even, but yeah he had an image down well and a ton of publicity, beyond that I don't really understand it either, his output was pedestrian af

@Chanjer

Tupac was not great, I think you've been quite generous in your assessment even, but yeah he had an image down well and a ton of publicity, beyond that I don't really understand it either, his output was pedestrian af

Exactly. I think all of this is subjective and I know one person earlier mentioned they loved "Hit Em Up" - fair enough! It's a powerful record for sure, but it's not something I can see myself slipping on the car stereo for a road trip.

I struggle to name 5 or so Pac songs that I'd actually listen to in a year, and enjoy.

Maybe "How Do You Want It", or "California Love", or "To Live and Die in L.A" from Makaveli. perhaps "Me Against The World" even though the instrumentation has dated badly. But yeah.. after that I'm running out of options.

Biggie? "mo Money", "Hypnotise", "One More Chance", "Big Poppa", "Juicy", "Party & Bullshit", "Kick In The Door", "Gimme The Loot" all get regular play still in my car.

Yeh I agree but I think that's because he came out with his slim shady LP I think when I was maybe 13/14? So a very impressionable age. But I do live him, always got a soft spot for Eminem

Nowadays I think UK mc's are generally better than most American rappers. People like Skepta would wipe the floor with Lil Pump, BillySixNine, and all the teenage mumble rappers with rainbow skittles hairdos.

I don't really like most of Dave's music but his warm up session as a 15yo unknown was pretty impressive. He seems to have the knack for storytelling and you can tell he's actually speaking from the heart.

Actually got it wrong, he'd just turned 17.

why do so many 'rap artists' make videos with fully clothed males and dozens of virtually naked females?

Similarly, why do 'Cardi B' and 'Megan thee stallion' make videos dressed like porn stars?

This may sound goady but I would be genuinely interested to hear people's responses.

@MrsTroutfire

Nowadays I think UK mc's are generally better than most American rappers. People like Skepta would wipe the floor with Lil Pump, BillySixNine, and all the teenage mumble rappers with rainbow skittles hairdos.

I agree in terms of sheer lyrical ability, UK rappers are a cut above.

What's interesting though is that the popularity of the Lil Pumps, the Lil Uzi Vert, Lil Yachty etc, is the culmination of a punk and rock aesthetic that has allowed hip hop to have another extended lease of life in the US.

There was a time around 2008/2009 when hip hop felt a little tired and old, a bit like when the excesses of 70s rock was about to be destroyed by the punk revolution.

The whole Kanye vs 50 Cent album launch, the fact that the most successful albums were tired rehashes of past glories by veteran MCs like Jay-Z and Raekwon..it was still a billion dollar business but it felt old.

Kanye then makes his surprise Autotune album 808s and Heartbreak after the death of his mother, and tha Carter III by Lil Wayne becomes the biggest record on the planet

For me these two moments are why we have the hip hop we have today. 808s and Heartbreak was the "Never Mind the Bollocks" of it's time - it smashed a wall through staid and crafted hip hop and said "it's ok to be angry and emotional."Drake wouldn't have a career without it.

As for Lil Wayne, just look at the first part of all those new rappers names. His slurry stream of consciousness style has influenced everyone in the game.

Basically if TLDR, US rap isn't Wu Tang and Nas anymore, and thank god it isn't. Music evolves.

Just out on the Slim shady LP. Bloody hell, takes me back!

why do so many 'rap artists' make videos with fully clothed males and dozens of virtually naked females?

Similarly, why do 'Cardi B' and 'Megan thee stallion' make videos dressed like porn stars?

This may sound goady but I would be genuinely interested to hear people's responses.

^^ patriarchy is thriving

I love uk rap. Kano is my absolute favourite uk rapper. His first album still regularly gets played in my car and its about 15 years old - his stuff lasts and gets better each year.

I also love wretch 32, akala and d double e!

Yes, Eminem is probably the greatest rapper of all time. His lyrics are genius and his delivery spot-on. There is a great sense of humour underlining it all.

When I first heard him, my instinctive reaction was that he was a modern day Juvenal. Offensive in the extreme, no topic off-limits, above all ANGRY about anything and everything.