Cant get over the birth of dc

[Leaveitinthepast]

It's taking me a long time (nearly 6 months infact) to admit this. I've had a mental block from speaking about it, and when I do get sudden thoughts on the matter I freeze up with sadness so I try to dismiss is. But I need to talk about it. I dont want it to haunt me forever or get in the way of parenting dc. On paper I guess my birth wasnt anything crazy but the management and neglect I dealt with is what I cant get over. Any help?

Talk away, OP, you have come to the right place.
My experience at the hospital for DC birth was so horrible that I wrote to PALS! It did help a little.

I went to a birth debrief with SIL. It was quite helpful with her. Her hospital has changed to electronic notes so when she said "nobody checked on me for hours" it could be confirmed easily as there were no additions to her notes - they can't be added retrospectively unless in emergency situations when obviously they are too busy to type.
She had the opportunity to ask a lot of questions about why some decisions were made for her - baby had shoulder dystocia which she hadn't heard of - and there wasn't a lot of time for discussion as she was being rushed to theatre. Having someone explain it to her in person seemed to help.
The midwife was also really nice and repeatedly confirmed that it was not SIL's fault in any way which was something she had been dwelling on.

OP that sounds appalling. Labour is unpredictable and painful, but the way you are treated is what really makes the difference in how you deal with it. It sounds in your case as though things weren't necessarily mishandled and the outcome was ok, but the terrible disorganisation beforehand with the induction mix up, combined with the stupid comments from nurse and doctors, and the equally bad aftercare, combined to cause a huge amount of completely unnecessary stress and trauma. Regardless of outcome they sound careless.
In my case I had a pretty horrific birth too (with permanent birth injuries) but the difference was that I felt well looked after before, during and after, so in spite of some physical issues I haven't suffered mental health problems).
I would go and see your GP.
Separately, request a copy of your notes from the hospital.
Phone the health visiting team and ask for a different HV, explain that you are really struggling and need regular contact. That is what they are there for after all.
Then if you think it would be of benefit, request a birth debrief.
Then make a complaint.
Is the hospital generally a good one? You can look up the rating of the maternity services online. A lot of them are in special measures.
You are not alone,many many women struggle with traumatic births and a lot of people never talk about it. Your partner might benefit from knowing that too, rather than thinking you are unusual in that sense.
There are various Facebook groups for different types of traumatic birth - may be worth a look.

I had a traumatic first birth, had counselling in between, and managed to have a really empowering and healing second birth.

Personally, I elected not to make a complaint, as over a year passed before I really faced the reality of how my birth had made me feel. I considered it, but felt that it would be more upsetting for me to bring it up again with that hospital and on that front it would be better for my MH to let sleeping dogs lie. Part of my trauma was about being treated like an idiot, and I didn't want to end up disappointed with a response to my complaint and going through all that again. If you do make a complaint, definitely get support from PALS and I think you can say if you would like a response or not. You may wish to just put it into the ether and not have a reply from them.

The counselling I had was life-changing and it's such an important service, I am so grateful my (second - we moved house in between) hospital offered it to me while I was pregnant with #2. It was very specific - with a birth trauma psychologist. We talked through my first birth and then talked about what might happen during my second birth and made a MH care plan for labour, which all of the midwives during my second labour read and acted on. It was so good to feel listened to.

I urge you to see if you can access a specialist birth trauma therapist. I found her focus on birth and her experience with pregnant and postpartum women really invaluable and very different from general counselling. She was able to discuss with me in depth my feelings about agency as a woman, and had a good understanding of the process of labour and delivery from both the hospital's side and the woman's side. It was so good to hear someone say, "That wasn't OK, you shouldn't have been treated like that". Especially as my treatment was not medically negligent, but was still dehumanising and failed to recognise my ability to make informed decisions about my own body.

Your GP or health visitor will hopefully be able to point you in the right direction for birth trauma therapy.

I’m really sorry this happened to you.

As someone who had a traumatic birth (failed induction, emergency section), I would suggest requesting your notes first from the hospital. Just in case they “go missing” when you mention complaining.... Then make a formal complaint and ask for a birth debrief. Then perhaps look into therapy (EMDR/rewind therapy).

The Birth Trauma Association has a Facebook page which is really supportive and well worth joining.

I also found a book called “How To Heal A Bad Birth: Making Sense, Making Peace, Moving On” to be really helpful.

I went on to eventually have a very healing ELCS for my second DC, and that has given me a final bit of closure.

Thankyou everyone for the warm responses and helpful advice. I really wanted to reply yesterday but I honestly get a mental block when it comes to talking about this, it's made me spiral into such a dark headspace. I feel like even though it looks like I have a great Support system around me no one (other than dm) even talks about my experience or asks me if I'm okay and its suffocating. I feel like there is a giant expectancy for me to just get over it now that people have moved on from it and focus on dc but its eating me up inside. I did mention briefly to dsis I wasnt coping and she told me the cliche "I'm here for you" but that's been it. She didnt ask anything more and I didnt say anything. All my family have alot on their plates. Its heart breaking to hear that so many of us women have experienced similar traumas and it should not be acceptable! You do partly feel like (when baby is okay) that you should just be thankful and grateful and that somehow subsides the trauma you went through but of course it doesnt! This is one of this things about pregnancy that has really upset me which is that I've realised the welfare of the mother becomes non existent and second best to a baby when I strongly believe it should be of equal level. It is important as mothers we are at our best mentally and physically to look after our babies after all.... but I'm afraid now my story has just become one of many and I feel so much injustice done by me. The most frustrating part was alot of it could of been avoided. When gp opens up tomorrow I will be asking for debrief and who to call for notes. I do have an online maternity notes app but its practically empty. Not alot was documented on there.

@PerspicaciousGreen I'm so glad to hear you got the right help! May I ask who was it that you saw? If I do go down the road of counselling I would feel more comfortable reaching out to ones that I know have actually impacted someone for the better.

@KimThomas thankyou for the suggestion I shall look into your facebook group. It would be nice to be around people that can relate and understand.

I guess another big thing is I'm so scared to get pregnant again. I will so desperately want it to be the experience I should of had for myself the first time round and if it does not fulfill that need I'm worried what type of mental state I would be left in and if I could cope. As well I'm just highly put off by the lack of support I've received from not medical professionals but family as a whole. I have welly and truly been left on my own to deal with this.

Sometimes, unfortunately, birth is just really really shit. My first was like that; and like you there were many individual caregivers along the way who forgot that they were meant to be looking after me and baby, and supporting us. I had a very traumatic birth 7 years ago, and like you I didn’t really know that it is not meant to be like that. I had ongoing physical and mental trauma and was frankly a mess afterwards.

My second birth was different though. I was much more in control and I got the birth that I wanted. I was completely different afterwards and my relationship with that child is much more relaxed.

Please do seek help. It’s not your fault, you’ve had an awful experience. Most people would be upset by it.

of course youre grateful that the baby is OK, but having a new baby is an emotional and difficult adjustment at the best of times, let alone when youre actually dealing with a traumatic birth. You and your baby could have died because of their incompetence and negligence. Thats significant in itself, even without the pain and fear you experienced, and tried so hard to get answers for and sort out in advance, and then were brushed off. I cant imagine the mixture of terror and anger you went through and are still carrying, all while dealing with the normal difficulties of this stage.

I had a traumatic birth too. It’s tough because when I was trying to process it all in the weeks afterwards there is so much of the ‘Be grateful to have a baby, any birth where mum and baby come out alive and healthy is a GOOD birth’ about which just shamed women and makes them feel like their experience and trauma doesn’t matter or is even selfish. For me it wasn’t just the complications of labour but how it was dealt with, I felt poorly cared for, disrespected and out of control, not involved in any of the decision-making over my own body. In hindsight the path that was taken with a long lengthy induction and rotational forceps really wasn’t the only way but nothing was explained to me properly. I felt butchered afterwards and struggled to come to terms with some of the related issues afterwards that I had no say in.

Your feelings are completely valid and it’s a shame so many women are left traumatised and broken after their birth experience it doesn’t have to be that way.

[quote EverdeRose]@Leaveitinthepast
I'd really caution you about the debrief. They usually cause more questions than they give answers. They are done in the interest of the trust and cover the arses or their staff.

Its amazing how many sets of notes conveniently disapear after debrief but before a complaint is made.

I'd be tempted to make a request for your notes and review them, speak to a private midwife or even a highly trained Doula may be able to shed light on things. Then write your complaint up, be sure to include what you want addressing and what you wish to gain from the complaint.

Speak to your GP about a referral to the perinatal mental health team, thry can help with CBT EMDR and talking therapies. And trust me after a debrief you're going to want to talk to someone.[/quote]
I can't echo this enough.

A debrief is a very bad idea indeed if the woman concerned experienced a lack of compassion from the health professionals themselves. I know from my own experience: The midwifery profession will almost never apologize, even if it is perfectly clear that midwives mismanaged someone's labour through a mixture of not listening and not caring. ESPECIALLY if they mismanaged it! Midwives who have neglected women in labour will hide behind lawyers, this is how the system works. And yes, notes that might cast light on what happened do go missing, this is not an accident.

A debrief is a perfectly good idea if a woman wants to re-visit what happened AND if midwives and other health professionals were not at fault. If I knew what was really going on when I was offered a debrief (after i had lodged a formal complaint) I would not have attended. The debrief was a midwife at the hospital telling me that I had "got it all wrong." She misrepresented what had happened (she wasn't even there when it did happen!), she dismissed what I said, and she shouted me down. She was clearly under instructions to do this.

I can't stress strongly enough: A woman who has been treated badly in hospital while giving birth will not be given a fair hearing. As soon as they get a complaint, the hospital concerned will be on the defensive. And hospital lawyers are brutal.

@TurquoiseLemur so if you dont mind me asking how did you approach the situation? Did you end up making a complaint

I'm so so sorry you went through all of that. If makes me so angry the way you were treated. I would complain if I felt able to, you shouldn't have had to go through that but I understand that it's all so incredibly hard.

I would ask for therapy though, this is a trauma and you should be given a safe space to process it.

@EverdeRose Totally agree.

My dc now in teens, so it was a long time ago, but I had a terrible traumatic birth and I am certain the doctors caused my ds’s injury. 2 hospitals were involved and hosp 1 told me the notes were sent to hosp 2, hosp 2 told me they were at hosp 1, then I was told they were lost. Nobody told me I could have a debrief. GP asked the hosp, and I got a short bland letter from a registrar more or less saying everything had been straightforward. I’m certain they were preparing to deny that certain things happened if I kicked up a fuss, but I just didn’t have the energy to.

@Leaveitinthepast I agree with pp that you should make a formal complaint. Your treatment was shocking. Also do look at the birth trauma association. I didn’t know anything like that existed until years after dc’s birth.

PPs are absolutely right, this idea that if the baby is healthy that’s all that matters is very damaging and dismissive of the health and needs of mothers. There’s a terrible lack of compassion in maternity services (and in all women’s health services). I’m sure men don’t get shouted at and told off if their hospital treatment doesn’t go as planned or they fail to heal properly. It’s a culture that needs to end.

[quote Leaveitinthepast]@TurquoiseLemur so if you dont mind me asking how did you approach the situation? Did you end up making a complaint[/quote]
The labour was awful. I was talking about it maybe 3 months after with my very nice GP. She suggested I make a formal complaint, which I did. I suspect she underestimated the defensiveness of the hospital; I feel she made the suggestion in good faith, having heard what I said.

In effect, I was traumatised twice. Once by the midwives in hospital who, long story short, left me without any painkillers while my son was in a difficult position. The pain was excruciating, I was begging for help. (Unfortunately my partner froze in horror and didn't speak up for me. But at the end of the day, my partner was not there in a professional capacity.) The midwives didn't examine me and kept insisting that I wasn't in labour! I got to the point when I literally couldn't speak, I was in so much pain. They attached a monitor to measure the contractions. It emerged during the enquiry (to which I wasn't invited) that not only was the monitor malfunctioning but they KNEW it was malfunctioning when they used it on me! I only got some help finally when these 5 midwives on shift went home and some new midwives arrived.

So traumatized once by the midwives in hospital and then by the response to my complaint. Instead of a genuine apology I got gaslighting ("You've probably misremembered, lots of women do") and the inevitable "You ought to be glad you have had a healthy baby." I thought they would fall back on "We were understaffed" defence but there were 5 of them in the team (the usual number, apparently) and perhaps they felt that that wouldn't wash.

I think people who have never submitted a serious complaint to the NHS just don't realize how deliberately obstructive the authorities are likely to be. My advice to anyone doing this would be to involve a lawyer from the outset, someone who knows how to fight them at their own game.

It's very sad but this was in 1996 and though I am better than I was I am still not 100% in terms of my mental health. I realize now that I had PTSD as a result of the whole thing. Many women do. But as others have said in this thread, our experiences in childbirth are often minimised and dismissed.

I didn't get an apology. I got a letter clearly worded by a lawyer saying "The trust regrets that you had an unfortunate experience on our premises but we do not accept liability." This is apparently common.

The Birth Trauma Association is very familiar with stories such as mine and I have found them a well-informed and very empathetic group of women. And they are independent, their only focus is on campaigning for, and supporting, women around labour and birth.

You should complain OP, that sounds like an awful experience and really really unnecessary for them to put you through that. It can take a lot of persistence to complain - I complained at 11 months, which was the point I got my head together enough but it was ignored by maternity until I wrote again, copying in the Chief Executive's office and PALS. Suddenly I had loads of voicemails from the senior midwife desperate to meet with me ASAP!
At 15 months I met with the most senior midwife to discuss the problems there had been and what they were going to do to improve things for other women. Some of this was around poor communication, signposting, staff training and staff attitudes. She was helpful and also offered to meet with me off-site if I didn't feel up to entering the maternity unit again.

She also suggested a birth reflections debrief which I then went for. It helped to talk thru what had happened and why, although it was very disorganised and the midwife who did it could only access the notes in the wrong order, so we did the postnatal bit first...
I hope it did improve things for other women.
Good luck OP!

@TurquoiseLemur thankyou for sharing that, I know some people find it hard to talk about. I'm sorry for you. It's not good enough, this type of treatment and birth should not be normalised. It's not fair that some women have to carry this type of trauma for years to come unnecessarily. It affects people in every type of ways. It's got to the point t where I cant watch women about their pen pregnancies...stupid I know. I do want to complain. I dont have any expectations from the hospital in terms of a sincere apology, but I am hoping for at least some recognition on what I've been through so if I am to get pregnant again I am treated more sensitively. In all honesty....I've been tempted to write to a newspaper or make a youtuber video about this. I want to spread my story. I want people to be aware of what they are getting into entering pregnancy. Never once did I have unrealistic ideas of my birth. I didnt bother with hypnobirthing and didnt want it to be picture perfect. But I never accounted for having to still 6 months on be dealing with a trauma I should of never gone through

@RidingMyBike I'm so glad you had a positive outcome to your negative experience. Would you mind sharing the format of your complaint? I want to write one up tonight but am stumped as to how to write it

@Leaveitinthepast I started out by making a big diagram/picture to help me work out WHAT I was complaining about, if that makes sense. Kind of brainstorming it, as it was in an incoherent muddle in my head. That helped me group it into areas of concern - I'd had problems with communication at an obstetric clinic, with community midwives not acting on info, breastfeeding antenatal class not giving good quality info, lack of info during birth (I was induced at 38 weeks for big baby because of GD) which made it worse than it needed to be, pressure to breastfeed/midwives ignoring signs of dehydration, poor conditions on post-natal ward, two negligent and one idiotic midwives all mentioned by name, two good midwives also mentioned by name, problems with info/care provided in SCBU, lack of support/poor info from community midwives at home.
I then grouped it into themes eg 'communication', 'staff attitudes' 'facilities' and had bullet points under each of those detailing what had gone wrong.
Then formed it into a letter (it was quite long!) but I think came out balanced rather than ranty. Where I could think of a solution or something that would have helped (eg laminated info about sterilising/making up formula in SCBU as none was provided) I mentioned it.

I wanted it to be about finding solutions. I was very very aware that if I'd had an awful time as an educated mid-30s white middle class woman there were going to be a lot of women who wouldn't be able to or have the confidence to advocate for themselves.
Good luck!

thankyou for the suggestion I shall look into your facebook group. It would be nice to be around people that can relate and understand.

The Birth Trauma Association is amazing, they helped me tremendously when dc1 was born.

I wrote my complaint as a "shit" sandwich feedback type thing. The few positives (lovely anesthesist and student midwife and the infant feeding coordinator), the shit stuff detailed as much as possible in as clinical language as I could muster and then finally my suggestions for improving the service. I used headings, bullet points and tried to make it as easy to read and as report like as possible.

I got a grovelly letter from the Head of the Trust and the offer of discussing future births with a consultant prior to conception.

Good luck

I'm so glad to hear you got the right help! May I ask who was it that you saw? If I do go down the road of counselling I would feel more comfortable reaching out to ones that I know have actually impacted someone for the better.

She's based at a hospital in outer London, so I assume you would only be able to see her if you also live in outer London.

But her title was Birth Trauma Psychologist, if you want to look for someone with similar experience near you. You've mentioned that you might have another child. My second birth, after birth trauma therapy and with a MH care plan for labour, was a great experience.

[quote Leaveitinthepast]**@TurquoiseLemur* thankyou for sharing that, I know some people find it hard to talk about. I'm sorry for you. It's not good enough, this type of treatment and birth should not be* normalised. It's not fair that some women have to carry this type of trauma for years to come unnecessarily. It affects people in every type of ways. It's got to the point t where I cant watch women about their pen pregnancies...stupid I know. I do want to complain. I dont have any expectations from the hospital in terms of a sincere apology, but I am hoping for at least some recognition on what I've been through so if I am to get pregnant again I am treated more sensitively. In all honesty....I've been tempted to write to a newspaper or make a youtuber video about this. I want to spread my story. I want people to be aware of what they are getting into entering pregnancy. Never once did I have unrealistic ideas of my birth. I didnt bother with hypnobirthing and didnt want it to be picture perfect. But I never accounted for having to still 6 months on be dealing with a trauma I should of never gone through[/quote]
I do find it hard to talk about. Not with women like yourself who are on a similar page but with people generally. Those comments ("But in the end you had a healthy baby" etc) are frequently made in that context. Various attempts to guilt the woman into not feeling the way she does about what was a horrific experience.

And yes, from the hospital after my complaint I certainly got the "Perhaps you had unrealistic expectations" routine. Going into hospital to give birth and expecting the professionals there to behave like professionals is not unrealistic!

Women are still being let down. I hope you can get real support that helps.

I guess another big thing is I'm so scared to get pregnant again. I will so desperately want it to be the experience I should of had for myself the first time round and if it does not fulfill that need I'm worried what type of mental state I would be left in and if I could cope. As well I'm just highly put off by the lack of support I've received from not medical professionals but family as a whole. I have welly and truly been left on my own to deal with this.

I think that is common and for some reason often not understood reaction.

My MIL had horrific birth due to lots of thing and spent decade fighting to get sterilized and still had people including famly telling her she get over it and have more children.

We had thought about a forth child but after our experience with third I couldn't face pg and birth under that health board and hospital.

I do know some women who did have better subsquent births - and found it healing though I think all I know had gone down complaint route and sought reassurances.

The MW manager who came and did de-brief with us due to complaint earlier found her MW had lied in the notes - I think we got belived there because we'd twice proved them liars hence first complaint. Met other mothers with similar tales of notes not reflecting what happened or seeming to be altered afterwards. Though I still suggest complaining - otherwise it won't be looked at at all.