to think 16 y.o. DD should not be sleeping in all morning on a weekday?

[PurplePeach83]

Eldest DD is 16. She is coming to the end of her first year at college studying an Art diploma. She seems to be on top of all her work at college, but she is only required to be in college for 2.5 days a week, the rest of the time is supposed to be independent study. Since returning to college after lockdown, she has been treating the mornings of her independent study days as extended lie-in times.

While me, DH, and 3 other DC are up early and out of the door, getting on with school, work etc., she is lying in bed and doesn't even come downstairs until midday, often still in her grubby dressing gown.

One of her agreed responsibilities is to give the dog his breakfast, and we just don't think its fair that he doesn't get it until 11.30/12. Equally, there is often the dishwasher to unload from the night before, washing to put on or hang up etc in the morning. Second DC14 comes home and will often help out with chores etc. when he returns without being asked because he can see what needs doing and likes to be courteous. DD16 however seems only interested in being in her room and doesn't pitch in unless asked and even then it is very reluctant.

When DH and I were her age we had college or study from 8.30 - 3.30 every day plus homework and both worked Saturday jobs too. If she was upstairs working on her college project every morning, I wouldn't mind if she wasn't helping around the house so much, but she has admitted she is just sleeping. I have told her this morning that I think it isn't right to treat her independent study days as lie-in opportunities and that she should be doing something more productive with that time like college work or pitching in around the house, and now she has stormed out saying I'm being unfair and she is all up to date with her work, and as long as she has fed the dog, it shouldn't matter! Now I'm left questioning whether I have been unreasonable...AIBU?

You would hate me - i don't get up till around 11 on a Saturday and Sunday if i don't have too. I work during the week up at 6 every morning. I have always needed a lot of sleep and am now nearly 40. Himself is one of those people who is wide awake at 6am every day and can survive on only getting 6 hours of sleep, i find that when i have a hectic day at work, office based, i am exhausting. You sound like my mother when i was younger, my sleeping in caused awful rows . and then when i was dragged out of the bed i was grumpy as not enough sleep causing more rows. I didn't want to socialize with my family, realized now am an introvert, i liked spending time in my room reading a book or watching TV. As someone else said pick your battle, what harm is she doing, change the chores around. I ma sure she is not the only 16 year old to not have a job. Be careful as my battle with my mother was one of the many battles we had that has caused us to be very distance now

Scientifically speaking teenagers a) need more sleep and b) go to sleep later at night and sleep later into the mornings. There was actually a study done where they started schools later and both grades and well being improved. If she's doing her college work then why does it bother you? Swap her from doing the dog's breakfast to doing the dog's dinner. What's the problem?

@Wexone. No, I wouldn't hate you at all. If you get up at 6 every morning it's completely understandable to be sleeping in at weekends, and as I said, weekends and holidays the DC sleep in and that's fine.

This is normal. Just switch her chore.

@SonnyWinds as I said, she is not home for the dogs dinner. She is doing her college work, but not for very much of her time.

She has never been motivated or driven. I put this down to her not being academic and hoped she would be really enthusiastic about her art course, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference.

I had a bit of a similar headbutt with my 16-year-old DS last year - I didn't really mind the sleeping in, but it was leading to the more he slept in, the less he would do in every other area of life. It was hard to deal with with the restrictions in nearly every other area of life.

My DS and I went round and round for a bit, and after digging into the stress he felt he was under, we ended up agreeing with him needing to do X amount of college-related stuff per weekday he was home so he could feel he was on-top and developing in that area (rather than just doing what the teacher said) and after he finished he could 'chill' as he wishes. Alongside that, we discussed what we all need to do around the house, and we organized with DD1 (14) how we would organize the evenings after the younger 2 are in bed: some days DS gets to pick, sometimes DD, sometimes they both choose, and sometimes parents pick with at least one attempt to play something together weekly. I gave him control, but also expectations, support in his challenges, his interests, and in being part of wider family life. He's now back up before 9am most days, sometimes earlier knocking out his work, and he's more active with most things now including us.

He reminds me of me at his age where my go-to when stressed or depressed or anything else was staying in bed more, compounded by more time online or out & basically taking whatever was the most comforting option available. I was just left to handle it, treated like it was just a teenage thing, but I'm not so sure. I think teenagers' executive function capacities are still developing and while they should be fully involved in what they do, they also need support to help them actually actively use that control rather than what is easiest or most attention grabbing in the moment as is easy for even many adults to do, even more for teenagers. I find being open about all of our limitations helped my teenagers discuss their limitations and how we can support them.

@BiBabbles Thank you so much, yes this is exactly it. The sleeping in is just the tip of the iceberg really. It's the lack of motivation for anything that worries me and the sleeping in is a part of that. Thanks for your helpful advice. I'm glad your DS has turned a corner and your relationship has improved.

Isn't this just her being a teenager? If she's not up in time to feed the dog, just ask her to do something else!

I used to do this at her age and have managed to become a responsible adult who has worked all my life. My mum used to nag, nag, nag about it (and other stuff) and it didn’t make the slightest difference, apart from to make me hate her. I left as soon as I could.

One of her agreed responsibilities is to give the dog his breakfast, and we just don't think its fair that he doesn't get it until 11.30/12.

This is really down to you though. You could easily feed the dog before then. Your DD isn't learning a thing by feeding a dog when she gets up.

I never put sleep restrictions on mine. The eldest has always been an early riser and at 19 will be downstairs making cups of tea by 7am - the other one will sleep all day, it's doesn't matter to me. He does his fair share but we are very much about doing what needs done rather then having allocated tasks. The dog feeding thing is really weird because your responsibility here is to feed your animal not teach your 14 year old how to be responsible for that.

@flashylamp. She is 16 nearly 17, not 14. I have already resolved to feed him, so there's no need to worry about that, though as I said, I didn't think it was a huge chore to give someone that age, and she did agree to do it. I'm finding it quite alarming how little accountability or responsibility is expected of teens these days. When I had a dog at 14, I walked her every day in all weathers, because that was my end of the bargain that I agreed to beforehand, and it taught me about what real love and commitment means. I'm only 21 years older than DD, didn't think times had changed that much, guess I was wrong.

I don't think it's so much that times have changed, more that your DD isn't you, she's doing teenagering her own way and you did it your way.

When I had a dog at 14, I walked her every day in all weathers, because that was my end of the bargain that I agreed to beforehand, and it taught me about what real love and commitment means. I'm only 21 years older than DD, didn't think times had changed that much, guess I was wrong.

But any pets are ultimately your responsibility because you're the adult in the situation.

@kurtwilde yes tbh I think there is a lot of truth in that. Me and DH are both very proactive personalities and so it scares me because I just don't know what lies in store for her with this approach.

@sunflowersandbuttercups Yes, agreed, hence why I have opted to do it myself now.

Please can we not have any more posts about the dogs breakfast, I have already agreed I will do it. He has never missed a meal, and I know a few people who only feed their dogs one meal a day, he gets two, he doesn't starve. I feel it is detracting from the real issue which is my worries about my daughter's apparent lack of motivation.

purple my DS at 16 would've slept all day, and as long as he was doing his course work I let him get on with it. He soon figured out for himself that it wasn't conducive to his college work (art like your DD) and he started adjusting to a better sleep schedule in his own way. Once the novelty of sleeping late had worn off, AND I'd backed off and let him self regulate. He's 22 now, went to uni, has a new baby, and is up at the crack of dawn!

Thanks @KurtWilde. That's very reassuring.

@ZenNudist

I'd be more worried thats shes doing f all with her life. 2.5 days of work and then 4.5 days to relax. She will never have it so good again.

Not against lie ins but I suggest she gets a job or volunteers or something that would contribute to her cv!

She’s 16. She has her entire adult life to base her value around her productivity. For fucks sake, let her have a lie in.

When I went to art college I did have a part time job (I was 18) but I regularly missed lectures by sleeping in until 12. The panic when my dad would wake me up by getting home from his early shift 😂
I honestly don’t think you should be worried about her “motivation”. She’s 16! If she’s up to date with work then leave her alone. She will work out her sleeping pattern eventually; it’s not like she’s missing shifts at work due to sleeping in. Her lie ins aren’t actually affecting her productivity in any way, you just feel that she should be using her time “better”.
I would agree that it’s not ok for her to do a half hearted job of chores though, so would have a consequence for that. But leave her to sleep in. I can’t see why it annoys you - have you never met a teenager?

@year5teacher Thanks for the advice. I think the lie ins would be more acceptable to me if I didn't feel like she was being generally unhelpful at home. A lot of teens her age at sixth form have no choice and have to be in school for 8.30/9.00 every day and they manage with weekend and holiday lie ins. I think by all means, stay in bed a few extra hours if she isn't having to go in, but the whole morning seems excessive. That means 4 days a week she is sleeping in for the whole morning, that's the majority of the days each week.

Who chose to have the dog? Buy the dog? Will have the dog when the kids leave home? If it’s DDs dog YANBU

IF it’s your dog YABU.

No family dog bullshit. If you and your husband chose to get a dog as part of your family it’s unfair to put that burden into kids in the same way it’s unfair to get your older children to babysit your younger children.

As to the sleeping in. Meh. What of it if her grades are OK? And fwiw as a coasting art student myself I actually found art courses aimed at 16-18 bored the tits off me. I really wanted to be doing my own art. Has she told you what her own art would entail?

Let her live. She'll have plenty of time to wake up early. You sound like you've forgotten how it feels to be young.

Stop going on about what's fair and what others do and reconnect with your daughter.

If the lie ins would be more acceptable to you if you didn't feel like she was generally being unhelpful at home, the issue isn't the lie ins at all.