to think 16 y.o. DD should not be sleeping in all morning on a weekday?

[PurplePeach83]

Eldest DD is 16. She is coming to the end of her first year at college studying an Art diploma. She seems to be on top of all her work at college, but she is only required to be in college for 2.5 days a week, the rest of the time is supposed to be independent study. Since returning to college after lockdown, she has been treating the mornings of her independent study days as extended lie-in times.

While me, DH, and 3 other DC are up early and out of the door, getting on with school, work etc., she is lying in bed and doesn't even come downstairs until midday, often still in her grubby dressing gown.

One of her agreed responsibilities is to give the dog his breakfast, and we just don't think its fair that he doesn't get it until 11.30/12. Equally, there is often the dishwasher to unload from the night before, washing to put on or hang up etc in the morning. Second DC14 comes home and will often help out with chores etc. when he returns without being asked because he can see what needs doing and likes to be courteous. DD16 however seems only interested in being in her room and doesn't pitch in unless asked and even then it is very reluctant.

When DH and I were her age we had college or study from 8.30 - 3.30 every day plus homework and both worked Saturday jobs too. If she was upstairs working on her college project every morning, I wouldn't mind if she wasn't helping around the house so much, but she has admitted she is just sleeping. I have told her this morning that I think it isn't right to treat her independent study days as lie-in opportunities and that she should be doing something more productive with that time like college work or pitching in around the house, and now she has stormed out saying I'm being unfair and she is all up to date with her work, and as long as she has fed the dog, it shouldn't matter! Now I'm left questioning whether I have been unreasonable...AIBU?

@ZenNudist

I'd be more worried thats shes doing f all with her life. 2.5 days of work and then 4.5 days to relax. She will never have it so good again.

Not against lie ins but I suggest she gets a job or volunteers or something that would contribute to her cv!

I work 3 days a week as a HCP 12 hour shifts so have 4 days off to do F all there are jobs that can accommodate this.

I think basically DH and I feel used as she spends all her time in her room and doesn't really contribute to family life at all.

This is an odd way of putting it.

I think it sounds like it could be quite normal for a teen. However, when I had my first brush with depression at 17, I lost a lot of energy - is she ok in herself? I also had glandular fever at some stage picked up by a later test, instead of what I'd assumed to be just a normal bad cold, plus had a chronic illness that started to kick my arse hard - so it probably wasn't surprising I had low energy for a long time. I sort of got used to being very tired.

Is there any chance she could be a bit unwell in any way?

I think it depends a HUGE amount on what she actually does with her time when awake. Does she get up at 1130, then have a pretty productive 7-8 hour day, like you and your DH did from 830-330 just from 1200-2000, or does she squeeze her work into a couple of hours and then chill out and avoid her chores? As long as she's getting decent grades you can't force her to work longer, but I'd be tempted to push her to think about how her grades could be even better if she put more time in, or encourage her to get some relevant work experience with the spare time.

The chores are a separate issue to her getting up time - if she's being productive the rest of the day and into the evening, why not switch to someone else feeding the dog breakfast and give her a chore that can be done at another time? The fact she's not really doing her chores and letting her brother do them for her is what needs to be addressed, it's not really to do with when she wakes up - she could do them at 9pm instead of 9am...

When my older 2 were at college at 16 - as long as they were up to date on their course work - they pretty much lived to their own rhythm. They slept for hours, ate at different times, and both had weekend jobs.

Yeah YABU. Sounds like normal teen behaviour to me.

DS14 has very much reached the sleepy stage, but like most teens he uses his weekends and holidays for lie ins and that's fine. I have no issue with teens circadian rhythm, I'm a night owl myself, but the fact is she isn't really working hard at either end of the day, seems to have little motivation for anything except talking on the phone or going out. She is naturally good at art but it doesn't feel like she is pushing herself with it, more like she's coasting along. If she wants to do art seriously it's an extremely competitive field and I just don't get the sense that she's got enough enthusiasm for it or anything else. The dog was very much wanted by her and DS and one of the conditions of having him was to feed him. DH walks him as he is big.
DD often stays out until evening, which is fine, but that's why DS agreed to do the evening feed plus he is out earlier in the morning in a hurry. I do agree the dog shouldn't suffer, so I will change the responsibilities, but tbh I don't think it's a good message to send a child that they can commit to something and then get bailed out. I don't expect her to be up at 7, but I really don't think that getting out of bed at 9 on a weekday is that big an ask. When she is ill or out we do feed him instead. Responsibility for a pet is a good way to teach kids to think about others, I always thought?

I feel YABU.

Teens naturally need to sleep later in the day. It is responsible thing to catch up on it when you have a morning off. You wanting her to get up when you do just sounds like it is motivated by jealousy.

A teens primary job is their coursework. I wouldn’t encourage her to get a job or volunteer or whatever as that could impact her coursework. It’s a FT job being a student. I left that up to my DCs whether they wanted a job for extra money or no job to focus on coursework & hobbies.

As for household chores done badly, ie table not wiped off...just go and ask her to do it again and tell her it’s much faster to do a job right and once than doing it poorly and twice or three times.

And stop asking her to do more chores whenever she is not in her room. I’d stay in my room too if going outside it meant I’d be surprised with a list of extra things to do. Maybe ask if she’d like to do something fun for a change? Family life isn’t everyone doing chores all the time.

I’d worry about this.

Few people can earn a living from art, even those with bags of talent who work really hard. Did she get decent GCSE results? Has she a plan beyond her current studies?

Wouldn’t put up with her not doing her share of chores etc. Would withdraw funds etc.

Not washing clothes, sleeping loads etc could be signs of MH issues.

@PurplePeach83
How do you know she isn’t working hard? Art is creation and that requires a lot of brain power/thinking and day dreaming time to do successfully. The same with writing. So just because a person doesn’t appear to be feverishly doing something, doesn’t mean they are not internally working hard.

@PlanDeRaccordement. Yes, I agree being a student is a full time job, or should be if you are doing it properly. I don't care how she works it, 3 x 12 hour days, evenings, weekends, whatever. But it is clear she is doing this very much part time and unless she finds something else to devote her time to like a job, volunteering, putting more into her course, I feel the least she should do is help at home. Letting her coast along and sleep all morning for the rest of her teens I think would do her a disservice in setting her up for adult life.

Art is something that can take many, many hours too. As PPs say, if she’s starting late but doing decent chunks of time/work and doing well on her course that’s one thing, if she’s doing v little and will do ‘just OK’ on it that’s not great.

Whilst I agree being responsible for a pet is good for kids, I can't imagine being up and about and not feeding my dogs. Ours are the responsibility of the entire family so whoever is up first feeds them.

You DD sounds like a normal teen to me.

I know because when she is not at college she is either out with friends or we can hear her on the phone for hours every night.

@PurplePeach83
Sorry, but I disagree. Just because a teen has lie ins on their day off doesn’t mean they’re going to be a work shy, lazy adult. Childhood is short enough as is and teens have enough to contend with without parents expecting their teens to morph into adult flat mates who have jobs and do equal housework, etc. They have fifty years of adult working life ahead of them, there is no reason to start that any earlier than it needs to be.

@PurplePeach83

I know because when she is not at college she is either out with friends or we can hear her on the phone for hours every night.

Sorry but that is ridiculous. You can’t tell she’s just coasting and not working hard because she sees her friends and talks on the phone during her free time. I was expecting you to say something like she’s failing her course and the college is thinking she should withdraw or repeat a year. Not, omg she has free time to socialise.

Letting her coast along and sleep all morning for the rest of her teens I think would do her a disservice in setting her up for adult life

I assure you it wont.

@PlanDeRaccordement That's fine, I respect your opinion, you may be right, but I have concerns about her general lack of motivation and regard for others, and I welcome all opinions as to whether I should be concerned or not.

Plus too teens are programmed to rebel. The harder you push her to fill every waking hour with some sort of work, the harder she will push back. If you just let her have some control over her life without it being criticised, then I think you will find she is more motivated to get up and out and do things.

Give her different chores, I agree. Give someone else the job of giving the dog breakfast.

My DS is similar, currently in college 4 half days and one longer day. Two days a week his first lesson isn't until 2.30pm!! He's generally slept in until 11ish on those two days, although has been a bit better in recent weeks as he's needing to revise for end of year tests..

Out of all that the only issue is the dogs breakfast. What time do you actually expect her to get up to do that? Just feed the dog yourself.

I agree with @PlanDeRaccordement when my older ones turned 16 and started college I was still set in the get them up for school type mindset, and it caused some friction. When I drew back and let them be responsible for when they got up, how they got to college, how they organised their course work and free time, I was pleasantly surprised to find I'd raised quite hard working teenagers who just enjoyed a lie in when they didn't need to be up!

Letting her coast along and sleep all morning for the rest of her teens I think would do her a disservice in setting her up for adult life

I really don't think it will; most teenagers do the same. They don't all grow up to be lazy, lie abouts.

If you think she is being disrespectful to the household then outline what these are to her. Pull her up on them.

Sleeping in, on days when she has no plans, is not disrespectful.

I would say pick your battles wisely. This is hurting no one.
Don’t be a nag.
It first help at all to say “In my day” or “at your age”. Life was different then.
Maybe suggest she washes the grubby dressing gown tho!