To say that being a vegan is no better for the environment than being a meat eater?

[OnlyInYourDreams]

Unless you eat only home grown, locally sourced products?

Obviously some people are vegan because they don’t like the idea of using any kind of animal products. But all too often people say that they’re vegan because “it’s better for the environment when this is categorically not the case.

Lots of fruit/veg have to be imported which is actually worse for the environment because it involves pumping man-made substances into the environment.

Products like almond milk are terrible for the environment because e.g. it takes 1600l of water to produce 1l of almond milk. Coca-Cola is practically a green product in comparison…

If people want to be vegan, why not just say you want to be vegan. Coming up with reasons such as “it’s better for the environment” which are just rubbish and laughable is only going to increase the amount of people who don’t take vegans seriously.

@Indoctro so why do our bodies digest it better than plants?

We are actually meant to mostly not eat meat

People are genetically and physiologically different. You cannot generalise in that way. Many would be very unhealthy and not survive without consuming animal products. Some appear to do well, but not everyone

@mustlovegin

We are actually meant to mostly not eat meat

People are genetically and physiologically different. You cannot generalise in that way. Many would be very unhealthy and not survive without consuming animal products. Some appear to do well, but not everyone

It's worth noting that 86% of new vegans return to eating correctly in under a year.

@vimtosogood we don't Need another 3.5 billion but it would go along way in helping the 10% of the world who are starving

Also the predicted population is 10 billion in 2050 and we certainly can't feed all them with meat as there just isn't enough room to be able to farm enough animals

So humans have no choice but to go plant based , either that or many billion will end up starving

What nonsense OP.

@mustlovegin

nothing ever changes if nothing ever changes and all that

Who gets to dictate what needs to change?

The Earth? Without a healthy one we wont exist as we are now, although people are too short sighted to care much.

@vimtosogood
we don't need to go vegan we need to go predominately plant based

I was reading by 2050 the world won’t hardly eat meat anymore , there will no factory farms or abattoirs and humans will eat cultivated meat created in bioreactors, we will look back in killing animals for food like the way we look back at the horse drawn carriage, it will be a thing of the past.
With a predicted global population of 10 billion by 2050 it would be impossible to feed the world any other way.

If this planet is survive it’s the only way forward.

You will have no option but to be plant based or eat lab grown meat , real meat will not be available, simple as that.

It's worth noting that 86% of new vegans return to eating correctly in under a year.

What’s correctly? How much meat and dairy is correct?

[quote Indoctro]@vimtosogood we don't Need another 3.5 billion but it would go along way in helping the 10% of the world who are starving

Also the predicted population is 10 billion in 2050 and we certainly can't feed all them with meat as there just isn't enough room to be able to farm enough animals

So humans have no choice but to go plant based , either that or many billion will end up starving

[/quote]
So I can't eat British reared meat because some parts of the world are arid shit holes where nothing grows?
The irony there is the high yield arable farming with straightened rivers and pesticides will be devastating for the wildlife the vegans pretend to care about.

Like meat eaters forcing their wants on the animals they devour? Your food had no choice.
Neither do the bees who are shipped in to fertilise millions of almond trees every year. More bees die than all other livestock and fish combined. Then vegans self righteously drink the almond milk and think they aren’t killing animals.

@Pumperthepumper

It's worth noting that 86% of new vegans return to eating correctly in under a year.

What’s correctly? How much meat and dairy is correct?

I imagine it'll vary for each individual, but enough not to feel like shit all of the time anymore.

1600L of water to make 1L of almond milk???

Err nope, I make 750ml of almond milk using....750ml water.

I imagine it'll vary for each individual, but enough not to feel like shit all of the time anymore.

What?

@Donitta

Like meat eaters forcing their wants on the animals they devour? Your food had no choice. Neither do the bees who are shipped in to fertilise millions of almond trees every year. More bees die than all other livestock and fish combined. Then vegans self righteously drink the almond milk and think they aren’t killing animals.

If PETA are anything to go buy, vegans love killing animals and are very efficient at it.

Many vegans do eat seasonal fruit and veg
I can’t see my chick peas as being that evil !?
I’m not 100% vegan

I’m more bothered by the plastic
And how grim meat and dairy production is compared to veg

Err nope, I make 750ml of almond milk using....750ml water
Plus the water the tree drank when it was growing the almonds. 10% of California’s water is used to water almond trees.

@Pumperthepumper

I imagine it'll vary for each individual, but enough not to feel like shit all of the time anymore.

What?

That's why they stop the vegan diet. Because they feel like shit. Or maybe they realise it's all pointless. The reactions from vegans when one of them reverts are extreme and revealing, if you follow vegan "influencers" and such you must have seen it.

You can say it and you might be right.

But I know I'm right in saying I've never met a vegan with a sense of humour. Or who looked healthy.

Almond milk is perhaps the exception - and I’m not sure how many use it compared to say oat and soya ‘milk’

It is true that some fruit and veg is imported and so carries with it air/shipping miles. But then so does a lot of the constituent parts of cattle food.

A lot of meat products carry a lot of air/shipping miles - New Zealand Lamb anyone.

A great deal pf land is cleared worldwide to produce the food to feed cattle/pigs/sheep/chicken. Cows fart a lot - methane is a greenhouse gas.

I’m vegan for a number of reasons - lowering my carbon footprint being one, animal welfare and my own health.

My decision/change wasn’t taken overnight but was a journey, gradually becoming vegetarian 36 years ago to moving towards veganism 5 years ago.

My carbon footprint isn’t zero - but I’m sure its lower that it would be if I was a meat eater - even though there are a couple of avocados in the fridge. Given a choice I would usually buy locally produced food.

By the way as you don't think almonds are ethical, that was a bit inaccurate as I only actually make oat milk but the recipe is the same. 750ml water plus oats and a date makes 750ml of oat milk.

@Donitta

Like meat eaters forcing their wants on the animals they devour? Your food had no choice. Neither do the bees who are shipped in to fertilise millions of almond trees every year. More bees die than all other livestock and fish combined. Then vegans self righteously drink the almond milk and think they aren’t killing animals.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but it takes much more crop to create meat that it does plant based meals.

Let's be real about what accounts for the vast majority of animal consumption... It's cheap supermarket meat, intensive farming, fast food.
If you eat lamb or beef from UK farms, virtually all of it will have eaten a diet consisting almost entirely of grass. Ewes get supplemental feeding around lambing, and you sometimes see sheep turned out on stubble turnips, which give the ground a break from cereals, allowing the pest load to be reduced without the use of chemical sprays (so you can argue that the crop is grown for meat production, but equally, it benefits the following year's cereals, which grow in cleaner ground that has had a good dose of natural fertiliser from the sheep shit). And cattle will sometimes eat silage that includes crops other than grass - but these are often things like vetches, which naturally increase nitrogen in the soil (that, is, they fertilise it) and their roots will be ploughed in as a green manure. Any non-grass or non-silage ration that goes down British beef is mostly things like spent brewers' grains, crop residues, and grains that didn't make the human food grade.

If your supermarket meat is British lamb or beef, it is very, very unlikely to have been factory farmed (there are iirc a couple of large indoor beef units in the UK, but the vast majority of British beef is extensively reared; sheep are only indoors for lambing and not even always then).

That's why they stop the vegan diet. Because they feel like shit. Or maybe they realise it's all pointless.The reactions from vegans when one of them reverts are extreme and revealing, if you follow vegan "influencers" and such you must have seen it.

I don’t, no. Do you recycle?

@vimtosogood

Yes you can eat that way now, but unfortunately our future is bleak, mass migration due to rising sea levels is going to plunge this planet into a very dark place in the next 30 years, you will be fighting for survival, we honestly are at a tipping point, it's not to late to change things if we all act now

I'm not telling you to become a vegan , I'm not a vegan but the whole globe needs to reduce there meat intake , that is a fact.

20% reduction will have huge positive effects , so yeah do eat your British raise meat but please consider consuming 20% less of it .

I'm not sure how old you are but the young children of today face a very hard life and if it doesn't directly affect you it certainly will any grandchild or children .

@Pumperthepumper

That's why they stop the vegan diet. Because they feel like shit. Or maybe they realise it's all pointless.The reactions from vegans when one of them reverts are extreme and revealing, if you follow vegan "influencers" and such you must have seen it.

I don’t, no. Do you recycle?

Yes, it's very easy in my area. I hate wasting things in general TBH and that includes food. Not so much for any spurious environmental reasons, but because I pay for it.