To say that being a vegan is no better for the environment than being a meat eater?

[OnlyInYourDreams]

Unless you eat only home grown, locally sourced products?

Obviously some people are vegan because they don’t like the idea of using any kind of animal products. But all too often people say that they’re vegan because “it’s better for the environment when this is categorically not the case.

Lots of fruit/veg have to be imported which is actually worse for the environment because it involves pumping man-made substances into the environment.

Products like almond milk are terrible for the environment because e.g. it takes 1600l of water to produce 1l of almond milk. Coca-Cola is practically a green product in comparison…

If people want to be vegan, why not just say you want to be vegan. Coming up with reasons such as “it’s better for the environment” which are just rubbish and laughable is only going to increase the amount of people who don’t take vegans seriously.

You can’t argue with stupid folks. Or the willfully ignorant it seems...

www.countrysideonline.co.uk/food-and-farming/protecting-the-environment/climate-friendly-farming-the-facts-about-british-meat/
Soy meal is fed mainly to poultry and pigs in this country. Most sheep and beef eat grass. My sheep eat grass and haylage which is harvested grass. Dairy production in the West of Scotland where I am is traditionally based on grass/silage. I don't why people are going on about the amount of water it takes to produce milk and beef here. We have a relatively high rainfall and are swimming in the bloody stuff. Uk farmers are looking to reduce the amount of soya used to feed livestock.

"And if you’re a vegan who wants fake meat products, why? You don’t want to eat meat, so don’t pretend that your veg is meat by calling it a steak or a vegan bacon sandwich or (as in a thread recently) vegan fish and chips. They aren’t."

Ermmm can you really not think of the answer to this one yourself? I'll help you out: because some people WOULD eat meat because they like the taste however they chose to give it up because of animal cruelty reasons/environmental reasons so therefore it's a convenient way to do what they think is right/help people find an alternative.

You seem so full of rage! Why do you care what somebody else calls food you will seemingly never eat?

2 vegans and 1 vegetarian in my family alone, not to mention various friends/colleagues/associates - they do it because of animals - never heard any of them say its about the environment.

@OnlyInYourDreams

We don't eat swans, elephants, dolphins, butterflies, rhinos, garden birds or other humans, should they not exist either? did I say that vegans agreed with the extinction of all animals? Nope didn’t think so.

You have completely missed my point and then made yourself look a total fool by telling another poster that I said something that I didn't 😂

Just because people don't eat an animal doesn't mean it will become extinct, was my point.

I will try and type shorter sentences to help you understand easier if I post again.

Well, you can be neither vegan nor a meat eater, it's not one or the other, although it feels like you get fewer and fewer "just" vegetarians these days.

Yabu, the (relatively few) vegans I know avoid coconut milk, cashews and in some cases avocados because of the environmental impact.

Not all plant based foods are equal, yes some don't have great eco-credentials but that doesn't mean there aren't better alternatives.

I will add that I'm not a vegan myself and love a steak but am very aware of how bad it is for the environment.

You're incredibly defensive, OP. You claimed a meat eating diet is "no better" for the environment, when the UN and various other reputable sources have said people need to adopt more plant based options to combat climate change.

And seriously, it's 2021, are people going to realise people who choose not to eat meat don't usually do it because they don't like the taste, it's the suffering and murder of animals they'd prefer not to consume.

You’re wrong, but even if you were right your point is still ignorant. To in any way heal the damage we’re inflicting on the only planet we’ve got, we don’t need a handful of people living 100% ethically green lives. We need everyone doing as much as they can.

Do you recycle, @OnlyInYourDreams ?

@OnlyInYourDreams

Except nowhere have I said “meat eaters are more environmentally sound than vegans.” I said that some vegans claim that they’re doing it for environmental reasons and the arguments don’t back that up.

And there are studies on both sides, so it’s possible to prove both points anyway.

And if you’re a vegan who wants fake meat products, why? You don’t want to eat meat, so don’t pretend that your veg is meat by calling it a steak or a vegan bacon sandwich or (as in a thread recently) vegan fish and chips. They aren’t. They’re vegetables and whatever other substance they put with them to give them the appearance of meat, that product which people apparently don’t want to eat.

People would spend far less time arguing with vegans if the vegans didn’t try to claim that you could have vegan meat, or a vegan butcher. Why not just say it’s a green grocer.

Ah - of course your 'environmental concerns' are simply a thin disguise for an obvious vegan-bashing thread

So, ignorant, judgemental and unpleasant.

What a delightful combination

I don't eat meat, but I'm not veggie or vegan (I eat fish). When I ate meat, I was eating meat AND soy products, it wasn't either or. So by definition, not eating meat has made my diet better for the environment. But I cut meat out for dietary reasons, I wasn't eating much of it anyway but not having it at all helped me to think about my diet more and make better choices. Plus it didn't seem to suit me any more and often gave me indigestion.

TBH I think we'd be much better finding ways to hugely reduce the number of people in this vastly over populated world - then we wouldn't have to worry about this or pretty much any other environmental issue as it is at the root of all of them.

Agreed.

Veganism is a commercially viable income stream, and therefore will damage the environment.

Ps. Like everything else.

I rarely eat meat but I'm not veggie. I don't eat imported veg by choice. Balance is everything.

I don't care Being vegan involves no cruelty

What an absolute load of nonsense OP. Never mind the thousands of square miles of forests being felled for cattle grazing land. Never mind the methane gas emitted. Never mind industrial slaughter practises; battery farming; live animal transportation and the misery of billions of living creatures on this earth. No let’s just focus on almond production. Or avocados. It’s all about them and the transportation of them. Nothing else is ever shipped anywhere. No water is ever used in the production of anything else. Oh no.

I don't care why people make their choices but I don't like the way some vegans try to force their views on others. Or when they try to make their pet dog/cat/hedgehog/lion etc vegan.
I am very grateful for the increased choice in affordable vegan soy free foods though. Made life so much easier with my milk and soy allergic kids.
I prefer to eat locally sourced foods where possible. Pyo places are great in the summer and I like to go to the butcher's for the meat from the farm down the road. We grow our own strawberries and herbs. The rest of the time I get the supermarket stuff with the UK flag on.

@OnlyInYourDreams

Except nowhere have I said “meat eaters are more environmentally sound than vegans.” I said that some vegans claim that they’re doing it for environmental reasons and the arguments don’t back that up.

And there are studies on both sides, so it’s possible to prove both points anyway.

And if you’re a vegan who wants fake meat products, why? You don’t want to eat meat, so don’t pretend that your veg is meat by calling it a steak or a vegan bacon sandwich or (as in a thread recently) vegan fish and chips. They aren’t. They’re vegetables and whatever other substance they put with them to give them the appearance of meat, that product which people apparently don’t want to eat.

People would spend far less time arguing with vegans if the vegans didn’t try to claim that you could have vegan meat, or a vegan butcher. Why not just say it’s a green grocer.

You’ve never had a decaf coffee? Or a Diet Coke?

I'm plant based/vegan for health reasons
It's a bonus that it's better for the environment and of course the animals

@WaltzingBetty

Yep you can obviously say it

By doing so you'd demonstrate that you're ignorant and uninformed and value your own opinion over scientific research.

But say what you like. Free speech innit.

Yep. This. Want some links from sources that are “neutral”? Happy to provide.

I get that no one WANTS to change their diet but - sorry - the omissions from meat and dairy are catastrophic and we can’t go on like this.

The amount of food we grow (all vegan, by the way) to feed farmed animals would be enough feed the human population of the world.

Most sheep and beef eat grass. My sheep eat grass and haylage which is harvested grass. Dairy production in the West of Scotland where I am is traditionally based on grass/silage.

Soya protein is widely used to feed sheep and beef cattle in the UK. And probably all dairy cattle eat soya as a proportion of their diet. As you would know if you were really a farmer. Yes their diet may be largely grass...for 6 months of the year. In the winter in the UK cattle are housed and sheep are fed extra in the form of silage or hay. Which is produced using artificial fertilizer and harvested using heavy machinery powered by fossil fuels.

They had this discussion on the PM show, radio 4 today at 5 o'clock. I'm going to re-listen as I was too busy cooking our (meat containing) dinner. Sounded a reasonably balanced chat.

You don't like vegans do you OP? Who wound you up?

I'm not vegan, but personally, as an evolving species, I believe rich nations should reduce the amount of animal produce they consume significantly, for the sake of the environment, for health reasons and because simply, do we really need to be so brutel now when farming and killing for food? I'm hoping we'll soon move on from that but many people for some reason take issue with me thinking this as if I am having a personal dig at them. I'm not.

@OnlyInYourDreams

So vegans are in favour of species becoming extinct then?

Ducks/chickens/cows/sheep of varying breeds? Without eating them or using them for other bi-products there is literally no reason for them to exist.

So what is the reason you exist? I assume there is no one who would eat you or use you for other bi-products, and yet you are here sharing your poorly informed opinions with us all