To say that being a vegan is no better for the environment than being a meat eater?

[OnlyInYourDreams]

Unless you eat only home grown, locally sourced products?

Obviously some people are vegan because they don’t like the idea of using any kind of animal products. But all too often people say that they’re vegan because “it’s better for the environment when this is categorically not the case.

Lots of fruit/veg have to be imported which is actually worse for the environment because it involves pumping man-made substances into the environment.

Products like almond milk are terrible for the environment because e.g. it takes 1600l of water to produce 1l of almond milk. Coca-Cola is practically a green product in comparison…

If people want to be vegan, why not just say you want to be vegan. Coming up with reasons such as “it’s better for the environment” which are just rubbish and laughable is only going to increase the amount of people who don’t take vegans seriously.

@Doghead

Disagree with a vegan and they can't wait to jump on you 😂😂

Which vegan?

Your so so so wrong, it’s tragic.

@1Morewineplease

Im just a bit concerned at the amount of land, in particular rainforests in South America, that's been given over to soya production.

The meat industry, though, needs a massive rethink.

Haven't RTTT so someone may already have pointed this out, but 90% Brazilian soy production is for cattle, pig and chicken feed.

If you must eat beef let it be grass fed and British.

I suppose you can think what you want, doesn’t mean it’s true.
I’m not a vegan but there is no denying that of course being vegan is better for the environment. Just watch seaspiracy on Netflix.

Most of my family are vegans or vegetarians, I don’t think that anyone needs an ‘excuse’ to eat or not eat what they want. They say it’s due to the animal abuse, which is awful.

I get lectures every time i speak to my family, to convince me to turn vegan but they focus on the health side of things, which you can’t really deny it’s much better for you. But I like eating meat so it doesn’t convince me. They’re persistent though I will give them that 😂

OP are you a frothing farmer?
I have farming friends with whom I regularly debate the merits of plant based (I'm not even a vegan but I do get their arguments) and you sound like the most hardline of them. I always want to say but but vegetables... vegans eat tons of them and don't farmers grow vegetables? Why would you be anti vegan?!

Nonsense! I eat meat / just about, have been vegetarian before and might go back to Pesci. However, beef production is way above anything else regarding being terrible for the environment.

I think its not as simple as that... It depends HOW you vegan and HOW you omnivore. Avocado culture is dreadful for the environment.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Farm animals (in EU and U.K.) have a much better life than wild animals. Secure from predators. Reliable and sufficient food supply. Fields to roam about in. Regular health checks and medicine if sick.

But farm animals in other countries have a worse life than a wild animal.

We can’t generalise “farm animals” because welfare standards and farming practices range from the humane to the cruel.

Fields? Don't tell chickens about them.

@SimonJT

Even if the person ate a lot of avocado, almonds etc it would still have less impact than eating one animal product a day.

I’m not a vegan, I do eat eggs and honey, but thats it as far as animal products go.

Figures below per year

Drinking 200ml of almond milk everyday would use 27,000l of water and 51kg of greenhouse gases.

Drinking the same amount of cows milk uses 45,000l of water and 229kg of greenhouse gases.

If I ate one chicken breast a day that would use 33,000l of water and 497kg of greenhouse gases.

The same amount of tofu would use just under 3,000l of water and 58kg of greenhouse gases.

If I ate beef 1/2 a week for a year the land required is equivalent to 6 tennis courts and 604kg of greenhouse gases.

If I ate lamb 1/2 a week the land required is the size of 12 tennis courts and 339kg of greenhouse gases.

The meat portions above are 75g in weight, the tofu is 100g and the liquids are 200ml.

Facts and figures that actually make sense ^ OP why are you arguing with scientists? The only reason I can think of is that you have a guilty conscience!

OP why are you arguing with scientists? The only reason I can think of is that you have a guilty conscience!

Definitely this.

It's boring but imho true that it's a question of balance. Our diets have become too meat focussed, we need to eat less. The land needs animals for a number of reasons - hedgerows for example, such a wonderfully diverse environment - grow mostly where there's livestock as they're such good fencing. Animals are part of our lives - I try to keep to max 500 grams a week and the rest veggie or fish.

**
OP why are you arguing with scientists? The only reason I can think of is that you have a guilty conscience!

So right

But that's all ok because some sheep graze on land we can't go crops on, right?
Most livestock in the UK grazes on land which is either unsuitable for arable crops (Welsh uplands, boggy floodplains) or which is under grass for environmental reasons. Even in lowland England, there is land that is just not viable for arable: too wet, too stony, too steep, too infertile.

We import loads of food into Britain for the simple reason that we'd have the bugger of a job feeding our huge population otherwise. We probably could, but I wouldn't like to see the state of the countryside if we tried it. I'm not sure what else you'd produce but livestock on the boggy fields where I walked the dogs the other day, which were under a couple of feet of water a few months ago.

Population numbers are a massive issue - more people => more food, more houses, more water, more clothes, more cars, more electricity.

I read the first page and just couldn't read any further. What a load of rubbish. Of course it is better for the environment to not eat meat. People need to actually do proper research if they are going to express their opinion on a public forum.
The poster who wrote the post is clearly trying to cause an online argument. This post highlights how ignorant some people are. If I was to correct each ridiculous 'fact' I would be here forever so I won't bother.
Just do your research properly people!

@OnlyInYourDreams

Unless you eat only home grown, locally sourced products?

Obviously some people are vegan because they don’t like the idea of using any kind of animal products. But all too often people say that they’re vegan because “it’s better for the environment when this is categorically not the case.

Lots of fruit/veg have to be imported which is actually worse for the environment because it involves pumping man-made substances into the environment.

Products like almond milk are terrible for the environment because e.g. it takes 1600l of water to produce 1l of almond milk. Coca-Cola is practically a green product in comparison…

If people want to be vegan, why not just say you want to be vegan. Coming up with reasons such as “it’s better for the environment” which are just rubbish and laughable is only going to increase the amount of people who don’t take vegans seriously.

Veganism is a religious-like fundamentalist virtue-signalling delusion which has its roots in the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Ellen G White, its founder had visions where God told her to rid meat from everyone's diet as it led to impure thoughts and deeds (masturbation). Her visions told her that once everyone became vegan, He would return to the earth (Second Coming). John Kellogg (another SDA) invented corned flakes as an vegan alternative to traditional breakfast which may include animal products.

Nowadays, vegans are told to believe they are eating healthier (it isn't, it is a diet of long term malnutrition). To believe their way of eating is better for the environment (cows cause global warming , etc). To believe it is kinder to animals (it isn't as more animals die in the growing and harvesting of plant matter than those animals slaughtered to eat).

Why is it being pushed so hard at the moment?

Big business has identified a new market to exploit. Some well-known billionnaires are getting in on the act and buying land to grow soy and pea protein to make fake meat; monocrops are the very worst type of agriculture for the land and the animals who make their home there.

They do not care that it is diet of malnutrition, they only care to make a profit. The low fat food industry is on the wane, people are turning against some processed foods. They are happy to harness the deluded vegans and environmental fundamentalists to destroy animal farming. You only have to read the plethora of articles, programmes on tv all pushing plant-based and vegan agenda.

Very worrying for the future of human health, particularly those in marginalised communities around the world who rely on their animals for quality nutrition (who certainly could not afford the crucial and very expensive vegan supplements and specially fortified foods).

Well, that's my two-pennyworth .

I have just read a few posts from the last page and am relieved to see so many positive voices of reason.

MarchXX 🤔 that comment....oh dear.....I am embarrassed for you.

Was just about to say what NC has said above.

If everyone gave up meat, we just wouldn't intensively produce the volume of animals. Artificial insemination, cows having lots more calves than they would naturally etc

I was a vegan for many years, though not anymore (have become lazy). I was horrified by the lives animals lived to serve our 'needs' for meat and dairy. Also used to work up the road from a slaughter house - enough to put anyone off, the vile smell and the animals occasionally escaping (temporarily). More than one worker there became vegan after seeing what really happens.

Am an omnivore who eats decent/local meat very occasionally.
That might be an option which is sustainable. I am also very aware of soya/palm/almond/veg imported with many air miles - so try to go for oat milk which is the most sound ecologically (so says Ethical Consumer for one).

I think its great there are more vegans now, though its not problem free obviously - and looking at overall impact of choices is sensible.

A bit like having a gas boiler but switching to a green energy company (which we just did, as can't afford a ground source heat boiler).

It's not a perfect world but we can try our best within our means to reduce suffering and to help our ailing planet.

MarchXX very funny satire. Especially the idea that vegans are all eating for the second coming and to reduce masturbation, as guided by the vegan god 'telling' them what to cook for dinner. Excellent

There is a stark difference between data and your opinion. The data shows that eating less meat, being vegetarian or vegan is better for the environment. It’s common knowledge amongst scientists and the information is readily out there for the general public. The real problem here is that you think your thoughts are facts. Your confirmation bias is like a five year olds and your incapable of self regulation. Rather than projecting your guilt onto other people who are actually trying to do something why don’t you try to make some constructive changes in your own life and grow up a little bit at the same time.

You are not being unreasonable to have that opinion about veganism, nor to express it. Especially since you seem to have done some research in effort to make an informed decision (not saying your facts are right or wrong. Others have posted contradicting stats, I haven't done any research and don't care to, I just believe it's good to be informed before you start a debate.)

But the vegans who have said that they made that choice because it's good for the environment aren't being unreasonable either.
If they say that's the reason then it probably is, they probably believe that based on the information they have, just as you disagree based on the information you have.
People don't "come up with" a reason to be vegan, most of them decided to be vegan for a reason and they are probably asked why they made that choice pretty regularly. I am often asked why I decided to go gluten free, so I tell the people who ask that I'm gluten free because I have Coeliac disease and then I promptly go on a rant about how ridiculous I find it that people who have no medical need decide to go gluten free when there are zero health benefits. I am entitled to have that opinion. People on gluten free fad diets are entitled to disagree with me. Neither of us are being unreasonable ;)

@SimonJT copying and pasting statistics does not show the whole picture though. Ruminant animals are an essential part to the ecosystem. Everything has a purpose, ruminant animals provide food but also improve soil health and enhance microbiology. Arable farms that have reintroduced cattle as breaks in crop rotations have seen increases in rare species of birds because of the knock on impact of urine and manure.

People should eat ethically produced meat and less of it but ruminant animals are necessary.

Just read the post from @MarchXX. Jeez, there are some nut jobs on this thread.

As a vegan I find some of these objections laughable.
Food isn’t ONLY imported for vegans.
Most of the vegans myself included won’t touch almond milk with a barge pole.
Palm oil is in EVERYBODY’s food not just vegan food.
How will cows,pigs,chickens,and sheep suddenly become extinct if people stop eating them?
Have horses,donkeys,lions,tigers,bears,robins,blackbirds,crows become extinct? No, strange since we don’t eat those do we???
80% of soy is fed to cattle but a lot goes into the manufacturing of beer,baby food,plastics,adhesives,water based paints,textiles,inks,polyester,antibiotics,cleaning products,cosmetics...the list is quite extensive.
I’m a vegan purely because I hate the thought of the cruelty that goes on not only at the slaughter house but in the condition they are kept in all their lives.
If I’m helpIng to save the planet then that is purely a bonus!🌱💚

Eating meat, eggs and dairy from local farms are far more environmentally friendly than being a vegan. Don't fall for the vegan agenda. My brother became very malnourished after 12 years of veganism and died. Humans cannot digest all plant matter or uptake much nutrients from them. Most bio available nutrients are in raw meat, dairy, egg, fruits some veg juices but no grains. All the synthetic meat and dairy are poision. How is your body supposed to know what to do with it? Eat raw primal diet and you and the environment will be fine.People did it for millions of year and were much healthier than we are today. People eat far too much processed foods especially vegans