to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography?

[Elizabetth]

Particularly as porn has become so much more mainstream in the past few years, I'd have thought that people would be concerned about premature sexualisation of children. Also I'm surprised that so many women are fine with it given that the humiliation and degradation of women is the central theme of pornography. You only have to look at the titles to realise that.

Elizabetth: many former sports performers do end up with drug problems and dying young. Diego Maradona, Paul Gascgoine, Nadia Comaneci are well-known names, others wreck their health and waste their youth and don't even get the prizes. (Sexual abuse of young athletes by their coaches is also a major problem).
The pro-censorship position is the one that would ban 'all porn' rather than improve the working conditions of the workers in the industry.

Apply that to any question and you will get a higher percentage of people saying yes to something.

"Would you rob a bank if there were no way you would ever get caught or punished?" I imagine that a higher proportion would say yes to this question than to "would you rob a bank".

In the light of day, how many people will ACTUALLY rob a bank?

'Speak to any bloke and he'll probably tell you that he gets rape porn spam in his e-mail just about every day.'

sigh.

ONebatmother: do you then think that competitive sport should be banned? Despite the fact that sport is life-enhancing for many people, and many of those who participate in it at a high level don't suffer physical or psychological problems, but earn a good living...?

okay they might not rape. but it might inflect their dealings with women, mightn;t it?

One in four women are raped or sexually assaulted in their lives. Quite a few men act on it.

If you asked people if they'd sexually assault a child how many do you think would say yes? Sexual assault is an incredibly intimate act, it's about taking over someone else's body. It's scary that so many men could see women as less than human and deserving of being treated like that.

Madamez the fall-out from sport and the fall-out from pornography are simply not comparable.

I get spam mail offering me drugs to increase my penis size (must be a bloody miracle drug as I do not have one!) and several "apply for this loan/this credit card" - it does not mean I have to act on them, open them, read them.

I still have free will.

No m. I've already said that i want to persuade people (to persuade other people etc) not to use porn or accept it as 'the way things are'.

don't think you can have it both ways, btw. you've already said that for the maj its not a great life..

anyways off to bed, will check in tomorrow, you're all very smart.

Oh and I'd ban boxing BTW. I think the damage that is wreaked on boxers' bodies particularly their brain and skulls is comparable to the damage from pornography.

You're missing the point ELF. I'm not saying all men will open rape porn spam, I'm pointing out how common it is and how it is cultuarally acceptable.

Elizabetth: Sorry but I don't consider David Cameron an authority on sexual behaviour or on anything very much - where did he get his figures from? WIth regard to the Malamuth study and all studies on human behaviour which depend on the subjects answering a question put to them by the researcher - unless the question was put under conditions of an infallible lie detector to an absolutely huge group of subjects, I'd take it with a pinch of salt. You have to factor in how seriously the subjects are taking the question and the questioner, what answer they think is required, what incentives they are being given etc. Do you really think that half the men you are acquainted with are potential rapists?

I dunno. Maybe you could e-mail his office. I guess he's got pretty solid figures otherwise he wouldn't be saying something that would be very controversial.

I always seem to be missing the point but I think that is probably because I am not agreeing with you.

You can report these email as spam. You can install blockers on email addresses. You can delete emails.

People reporting it would show to the senders that it is not acceptable, surely?

I am flabbergasted by suggestions that if men see porn, they do not treat women as equal, that if men get spam emails, they will open and want to act upon "rape fantasies". IYO do men have ANY self control?

LOL @ an opposing party leader not saying something controversial without concrete evidence.

Also, if we take a 50/50 split of male to female babies by mumsnetters, are you agreeing that a quarter of our children will grow up thinking it is okay to rape??

Anyway, I have been kept long enough away from the washing up, must go do it before bed, night night

elizabeth

'Oh and I'd ban boxing BTW. I think the damage that is wreaked on boxers' bodies particularly their brain and skulls is comparable to the damage from pornography.'

really interesting comparison.

i hate what boxers do to thetr bodies SO much. however, they want to do it. they earn their living by it. they like it and you CANNOT ban it.

You know that's a strange argument ELF. One in two young men are reported as saying that it is OK to rape under certain circumstances right now. I'm not making a prediction, I'm reporting what they have said, what is currently the situation. Why do you want to ignore the present in order to start talking about the future?

You can only hope that mumsnet boys do not grow up thinking that, but our culture tells boys and men that they are entitled to women's bodies and to be a man they have to access them. It's a breeding ground for rapist attitudes.

As for the rape spam, I guess the fact that it's still being sent and that rape porn is such a popular hit on google, that there is a fairly large male audience who is receptive to that type of media and that they aren't reporting it or blocking it.

just caught this before going to switch off - well, if porn is getting worse over the years as you say, surely it will be a higher % who think it is okay to rape in the years to come?

Just a thought

Gagging porn is something else that is popular. Women being made to choke on penises forced in their mouths, sometimes to the point where they vomit. The vomiting is part of the pleasure for the viewer.

Why do men like to watch these things? I'm pretty sure there are next to no women who watch this kind of porn despite the claims that women do it too.

Re what Xenia said about Victorians clamping down on it:

The Victorians were very outwardly restrained and it was very much the era of covering up and suppressing sexuality (particularly of women).

It was also the era when pornography took off.

this is quite an interesting article

Oh jesus and the first person who they mention is the rapist the Marquis de Sade.

it's their mums fault elizabeth.

Huh?

boys and girls are raised by parents. that's where you need to look for your answers.

Spot on sophable.

(VVV, have you your email open?)