to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography?

[Elizabetth]

Particularly as porn has become so much more mainstream in the past few years, I'd have thought that people would be concerned about premature sexualisation of children. Also I'm surprised that so many women are fine with it given that the humiliation and degradation of women is the central theme of pornography. You only have to look at the titles to realise that.

cestlavie, I don't know whether it would be possible to 'prove' a link between violent porn and violence against women, because I don't see how you could filter out the compounding factors. Much like the link between violent computer games and behaviour, I guess. It's not possible to find a control group of people who have never been exposed to this sort of imagery.

That's why I'm in favour of the precautionary principle on this point - I don't think there's any way of 'proving' it except by actually taking the action I described below.

As to Loaded and all the rest of that crap, I do think that it has a terrible effect on the way young men view women, and I do believe that that might well feed into sexual behaviour that displays insufficient respect and empathy.

E - I'm almost positive that alot of the (well paying) porn companies insist on drug screens as well as medical screenings.

I think you'll find most people who are hooked on drugs turn to robbery, prositution and murder rather than porn. (Notice I said MOST)

Pornography is prostitution. Being paid for sex is being paid for sex whether it's on film or not.

Also if you're going to make a claim like that (that porn companies drug test their performers) you really need to back it up. Do you have any evidence to that effect?

VVVQV - point taken...tho I'd probably give it a go

"Norma, they are paid to do it. If they were enjoying it there wouldn't be the drug problem in the industry that there is. They need to drug themselves up to endure those things."

Not ALL porn stars do drugs. Again you're tarring everyone with one brush.

"Pornography is prostitution. Being paid for sex is being paid for sex whether it's on film or not."

Is marriage where the woman stays at home and the man pays for everything prostitution too? What about women who use sex to get materialistic things they want?

Actually policywonk, it is possible in theory because psychologists have done quite a lot of work in relation to violent video games although the outcomes have been variable. For example, you have someone play a violent videogame for a set period of time, for a set of period of days, and then engineer a series of situations (e.g. conflict resolution) which might be affected by their having played these games.

I imagine you could do very similar for 'gonzo' porn. I'd be really interested to see the results.

LS/cestlavie, just saw your posts further down.

I am almost inclined to go with policywonk
(despite some misgivings about censorship)

Anything that depicts gross sexual violence against
another human being - man or woman - should be banned.

I.e. it will be driven underground but
that's good enough for me.

That would include Baise moi, a movie I actually
found very intriguing. It was made by two rather stern-looking
French feminists, believe it or not.

Obviously not.

Think about it a bit more.

E - Is anywhere that sex is paid for prostitution then?

What about the SAHM? Or the gold diggers?

AS for proving, did you not read, I said I'm almost positive!! If you want me to prove it, i'll go have a look whether there is anything.

DJ - "That would include Baise moi, a movie I actually found very intriguing. It was made by two rather stern-looking French feminists, believe it or not"

I didn't know this, makes sense though considering the film shows alot of female domination. I personally couldn't watch it but may try again (cutting out the rape scene) and see what's its all about.

Elizabeth, I understand health screening and medical certificates confirming HIV screening etc is pretty standard practice, and other performers (and the producers and directors) insist on seeing proof from other performers before proceeding.

This happens in the more self-regulated sector of the industry.

Undoubtedly there are the sectors run by Eastern European thugs who abduct women and and enslave them into pornography that dont bother with these checks, because they consider their 'stars' expendible.

I'd like you to prove it.

And I've just said SAHM mothers aren't prostitutes and it's incredibly insulting that anyone would make that claim.

Mind you the MILF porn seems to think that that's what they are.

I know the HIV tests are standard VVV however that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about drug tests on performers.

cestlavie - I see your point. I suspect that if I googled for examples of studies that 'showed' that violent porn promoted violence against women, I could find plenty. Similarly, if I went looking for studies that 'showed' the opposite, I'm pretty sure I could find those too. It's not proper science, is it (I mean, it's not like showing a statistically significant link between smoking and lung cancer) - these sociology/pschology studies are always a bit tenuous, I think. In macro-scale matters like this, I think the only real proof of the pudding is in the eating.

for example (just one of the first things that came up when I googled)

Video games are interesting in this context
because the same increase in 'content strength' can be found there.

Case in point: Rockstar Games.

They had to come up with something more shocking
after the controversial Grand Theft Auto series
and what happened?

Their latest game was banned because
it was essentially all about different ways
of creeping up on human opponents and killing them
in the most creatively gratuitous manner.

At some point we need to say Stop
and if we can do it to games manufacturers,
we can do it to porn producers.

They still aren't paid very much.

Put that in your pipe, smoke it and you can even blow a few smoke rings.

P.S. Being so desperate for money that you undertake sexual acts you wouldn't consider under any other circumstancesis not a choice if choice is to have any meaning whatsoever.

If you want some proof, ill have a look later on for you.

I'm going to my anti natal class now so i'm afraid it'll have to wait.

have fun all.

policywonk: you're right of course, translating anything from the lab into the real world isn't a perfect science but we do it in lots of other areas (e.g. impact of advertising on children for starters).

As DJ says, I guess I have sympathy for your point of view mainly because I don't really see how 'gonzo' porn and its ilk is additive to our society in any way, but then again, just because something isn't additive doesn't it should be banned.

Interesting link policywonk. Will have a look into that.

Interesting link policywonk. Will have a look into that.