To expect an exception for bf baby?

[PatchItUp]

I have a 2 month old baby who is exclusively breastfed. Today I’ve got a hairdressers appointment for the first time in months and I’ve been really looking forward to it. I’m having cut and colour so may be a few hours. I’d expressed some milk and my DH is going to try giving him a bottle for the first time.

I mentioned when I arrived that this was the situation and that if he refused the bottle, my DH would bring the baby in to be fed then take him away again. I’ve done this in a different hairdressers with my older children before with no problem.

The receptionist said there was a no children policy and therefore I wouldn’t be able to bring him in. I was a bit shocked and reiterated that he is very young, exclusively bf and couldn’t be left hungry if he wouldn’t take the bottle. She said she would check with the hairdresser.

Hairdresser came and said much the same thing - no child policy, if we make an exception for you we have to make one for everyone and customers will complain. I said again that I understood a no child policy to prevent toddlers running around or making noise but this would be a small baby coming in for a feed and then out again. She said she would check with the manager.

Manager heard and said from across the room ‘there’s nowhere for you to go’. By this point all the customers are listening and I felt really conscious and upset about being argued with by three different members of staff. I was fairly sure that this was illegal refusal of services but not totally confident so I said ‘I don’t need to go anywhere, he’ll just be on my lap, have a feed then go again’. They all again said it’s company policy, they can’t make any exceptions. The manager said ‘what’s the percentage chance he’ll need to come in?’ And one of the women said ‘there’s a good chance he’ll just take the bottle so why not take the risk?’ I replied I couldn’t take the risk that he wouldn’t take it and would be left screaming and hungry and not allowed to come in.

Eventually the manager reluctantly agreed that he could be brought in if necessary but it was clear they were really unhappy about it and it’s soured the experience for me massively.

When I checked on my phone it seems they’re acting illegally in refusing services to a breastfeeding mother, although I guess they could argue it’s down to chemical hazards (although this wasn’t mentioned at any time as a reason).

So - was I being unreasonable? And would I be unreasonable to complain later on?

I know some people will say I should have just left but my hair is such a state!! And I’ve been really looking forward to having it cut and having a few hours to myself.

I BF here, there and everywhere, but it wouldn't have occurred to me to bring them to the hairdresser. Neither took a bottle, so I just waited until they were a bit older. DD1 was born in April and I remember going to a local hairdresser in December as I didn't want to risk the journey to my usual place near work.

DD2 was born the day salons reopened last summer, and then by the time she was ready to be left they were closed again, so I haven't had a haircut since Dec 2019. Very much looking forward to my appointment in a few weeks time!

It's just one of those things, the baby will be in a routine soon.

@Lemonelderflower

Chameleon it’s not that this in itself is a common reason not to breastfeed but it’s part of an overall attitude which firstly doesn’t see breastfeeding as the ‘norm’ and also subliminally encourages formula feeding to make life easier.

So I doubt someone will see this and decide to formula feed on that basis! But when you have PILs and parents, neighbours and friends, even (I’m sad to say now) MN urging you to give the baby a bottle, often prefixed with ‘just’, it is ultimately harmful to breastfeeding rates.

I added a further comment before seeing this. But this situation has no bearing on the issue you’re referring to, it’s directly related to the fact we’re still in a pandemic (unless the salon generally has a child free policy in which case that’s their call and they can take the increase or decrease in sales as customers respond).

People make the best decision for them and their baby when it comes to how to feed them (except for cases where someone has or feels they have no choice but to bf or ff).

@poppycat10

Are mothers just supposed to stay at home for months/years if bf

No, but if you are doing baby-led feeding and not feeding every 3-4 hours which would give you time to get out and get highlights etc, you need a mobile hairdresser. Get the baby into a routine which allows you more flexibility (probably not possible at 2 months, so use a mobile hairdresser).

they’re acting illegally in refusing services to a breastfeeding mother, although I guess they could argue it’s down to chemical hazards no they are not. Well not in England anyway, I know the rules differ in Scotland so maybe they extend to hairdressers but I thought the rules were supposed to be to stop some stupid old bloke complaining about a woman "getting her boobs out" in a cafe and the owner asking you to leave or feed in the loo, not overriding a no-child policy. Age discrimination is permitted against the under 18s so get used to it fast, eg B&Bs that don't take children.

No, that's not the actual law, no matter how much you think it ought to be!

This thread is awful stack and it’s seriously making me question my own participation here.

I BF all four of my DC and would never have even thought about taking them into a hairdressers? Doesn't seem like a nice place to sit and feed, with all the hair products being sprayed, air being blown with hairdryers. And all the hair clippings (not envy).

I always planned my appointments around family schedules, not expecting places to accommodate mine.

And that is before considering the pandemic....

YABU. It's their salon, their policy.

Pp - AIBU is the same people as the daily Mail comments. OP I’d cancel if I were you and get someone mobile to do it, will save ££££ too.

It’s pretty sad to be so precious about a baby being fed and they must be proper uptight if it would ruin their hairdressers trip. They’d be having a go at you for bottle feeding as well.

@poppycat10

Are mothers just supposed to stay at home for months/years if bf

No, but if you are doing baby-led feeding and not feeding every 3-4 hours which would give you time to get out and get highlights etc, you need a mobile hairdresser. Get the baby into a routine which allows you more flexibility (probably not possible at 2 months, so use a mobile hairdresser).

they’re acting illegally in refusing services to a breastfeeding mother, although I guess they could argue it’s down to chemical hazards no they are not. Well not in England anyway, I know the rules differ in Scotland so maybe they extend to hairdressers but I thought the rules were supposed to be to stop some stupid old bloke complaining about a woman "getting her boobs out" in a cafe and the owner asking you to leave or feed in the loo, not overriding a no-child policy. Age discrimination is permitted against the under 18s so get used to it fast, eg B&Bs that don't take children.

@poppycat10 this baby is 2 months old. Baby led feeding is encouraged. Babies get hungry, thirsty or cold when they do, just as you do - or do you force yourself to not have a drink on a hot day for 4 hours? Babies tummies are so tiny that they tend to be hungry every 2 hours. Trying to force your baby to go 3-4 hours without feeding is not a fair thing to push other mothers into. If the OP wants to feed on demand her TWO MONTH OLD then she is entitled to without your judgement.

For a breastfeeding mother of a tiny baby you are pretty much one person. People can YABU all they like but that’s how it is. That’s why there are laws in place about it.

Exactly this. And it's about discriminating against the mother, not the child. If she is being refused service because she might need to breastfeed, then how is that not discrimination. She's made it very clear there will be no fuss, kid in, kid fed, kid out, she's just asking for a very reasonable accommodation.

@PatchItUp

YANBU and I'm sorry for some of the awful replies that you've had here.

It's all about reasonableness - yours & the hairdresser's.

A tiny baby popping in for a quick feed is fine. The hairdresser should & could absolutely accommodate this.

You aren't looking for any special treatment or to inconvenience anyone. It will be quick, manageable & not affect anyone.

Some of the hysterical replies about compensating the hairdresser for the 15 mins the feed might take - oh come on! Surely we can just have a little bit of reasonable give & take, a decent person will happily accommodate such an interruption (if it even was an interruption).

Oops @Aprilx said the same thing!

As a fellow customer I wouldn’t mind you breastfeeding for 10 minutes but it’s not really fair if everyone after you is kept waiting on a tightly managed schedule. Saying that, they could have handled the situation better (not shouting across the salon!)

I’d have phoned to check in advance basically, and if not booked somewhere where children are allowed.

@Lemonelderflower

And I’m sure she will take her business elsewhere but it’s illegal to discriminate on the grounds of breastfeeding.

It's nothing to do with breastfeeding. Also they weren't discriminating. They have a NO CHILD policy, not a no breastfeeding policy.

@Lemonelderflower

No chameleon, I’m afraid we can’t because it is very relevant.

Supporting breastfeeding is more than a tick box exercise.

Cool, crack on. I support women in choosing to feed their babies in whichever way works best for them 👍🏻 Which includes not referring to women choosing to feed their babies formula as an abysmal outcome.

YABU. Extremely U, it’s a child free environment much as many other places where it is also inappropriate to take a child. You were not denied service, they repeatedly told you that your child couldn’t come in - but you thought you deserved different treatment.
HD will time their schedule and steps to precision, therefore taking 15mins to feed a baby May hugely screw their timings up - potentially then making the next person late as well as your dye being timed wrong.

Also can we stop talking about womens’ infant feeding choices with terms like ‘abysmal breastfeeding rates’?

Why though? They are poor.

You can argue it’s not particularly important if you like, but p

The law is about breastfeeding women being treat unfavourably - but in this case OP is still going to receive the service she is entitled to.

Most of my breastfeeding friends had their hair cut with baby in a sling attached to them for feeding whilst that young

I just avoided the hairdressers myself but my hair can go a year and not really look much different

I would say yanbu in general as I think it’s awful to effectively say you’ve got to choose between hair or your baby potentially going hungry

I think they were unreasonable but it seems that they know they are by putting that policy in place to ensure no babies come in

I would just treat it as an unfortunate experience and ask next time if baby can come in (most places will say yes of course) and avoid ones like these in future

Oops sorry, meant to add ...

But plenty would disagree

For heavens sake Yabu,are you happy for your exclusively breast fed baby to inhale hairspray and ammonia from hair dye?

Don't be so daft!

The baby will pop in for a few minutes & feed.

OP won't be pushing baby directly onto her hair or thrusting him up for the hairdresser to spray him with hairspray.

All this over-blown drama about Things That Might Happen they really really won't

It’s not an abysmal outcome because of women choosing to feed their baby formula.

It’s an abysmal outcome because a lot of the women who feed their baby formula milk would have preferred to breastfeed. That is wrong, just as wrong as someone who wishes to feed their baby formula being forced to breastfeed would be. But I digress.

YANBU. I‘ve been to plenty of ‘naice’ hairdressers and seen babies sleeping in pushchairs or car seats (not what I’d consider ideal but whatever). A 15 minute feed is hardly going to ruin anyone else’s experience. It wouldn’t even occur to me to ask tbh! Goodness I’ve taken small breastfed babies all sorts of places!

It’s a shame that threads involving breastfeeding always end up devolving into people using it as a platform to promote the idea that breast is best.

This isn’t related to bf or otherwise, it’s their risk assessment during a pandemic for the safety of staff and other customers.

@Kotatsu

For a breastfeeding mother of a tiny baby you are pretty much one person. People can YABU all they like but that’s how it is. That’s why there are laws in place about it.

Exactly this. And it's about discriminating against the mother, not the child. If she is being refused service because she might need to breastfeed, then how is that not discrimination. She's made it very clear there will be no fuss, kid in, kid fed, kid out, she's just asking for a very reasonable accommodation.

This 💯

I’m not the sort of person who treats a trip to the hairdressers as an enjoyable retreat at the best of times though.
I hate people chatting rubbish to me who blatantly don’t want to and I’d rather someone just do the required snip and let me on my way

@Lemonelderflower

This thread is awful stack and it’s seriously making me question my own participation here.

Yeah, I remember there was always a few threads that went like this but it tended to be on the landlord or house prices threads. Used to be a little more common sense on the bf threads.

No it's not a risk bf a baby in a hairdressers, a bit of hair dye is not industrial radiation. No they aren't allowed to refuse bf on grounds of a no child policy whatever posters want to believe. The only reason I'd even sympathise myself would be because of Covid, but they still have to comply with the law on this. OP YANBU but I'd just find another hairdresser or someone who will do it at home, but agree that they are BU.