To expect an exception for bf baby?

[PatchItUp]

I have a 2 month old baby who is exclusively breastfed. Today I’ve got a hairdressers appointment for the first time in months and I’ve been really looking forward to it. I’m having cut and colour so may be a few hours. I’d expressed some milk and my DH is going to try giving him a bottle for the first time.

I mentioned when I arrived that this was the situation and that if he refused the bottle, my DH would bring the baby in to be fed then take him away again. I’ve done this in a different hairdressers with my older children before with no problem.

The receptionist said there was a no children policy and therefore I wouldn’t be able to bring him in. I was a bit shocked and reiterated that he is very young, exclusively bf and couldn’t be left hungry if he wouldn’t take the bottle. She said she would check with the hairdresser.

Hairdresser came and said much the same thing - no child policy, if we make an exception for you we have to make one for everyone and customers will complain. I said again that I understood a no child policy to prevent toddlers running around or making noise but this would be a small baby coming in for a feed and then out again. She said she would check with the manager.

Manager heard and said from across the room ‘there’s nowhere for you to go’. By this point all the customers are listening and I felt really conscious and upset about being argued with by three different members of staff. I was fairly sure that this was illegal refusal of services but not totally confident so I said ‘I don’t need to go anywhere, he’ll just be on my lap, have a feed then go again’. They all again said it’s company policy, they can’t make any exceptions. The manager said ‘what’s the percentage chance he’ll need to come in?’ And one of the women said ‘there’s a good chance he’ll just take the bottle so why not take the risk?’ I replied I couldn’t take the risk that he wouldn’t take it and would be left screaming and hungry and not allowed to come in.

Eventually the manager reluctantly agreed that he could be brought in if necessary but it was clear they were really unhappy about it and it’s soured the experience for me massively.

When I checked on my phone it seems they’re acting illegally in refusing services to a breastfeeding mother, although I guess they could argue it’s down to chemical hazards (although this wasn’t mentioned at any time as a reason).

So - was I being unreasonable? And would I be unreasonable to complain later on?

I know some people will say I should have just left but my hair is such a state!! And I’ve been really looking forward to having it cut and having a few hours to myself.

@BeneathYourWisdom

YABU to book at a child free salon assuming they’d make an exception as you’re bf!

Hair salons aren’t safe places for tiny babies to be fed; is the stylist meant to go on cutting and dying your hair or stop and hold up her next client while baby feeds? (And newborns feed for 45mins sometimes!) what about all the fumes and chemicals?

What if you were having your hair washed or under a heat lamp to set the colour and DH came in wanting you to have the baby? Would your DH stand there with the screaming baby who won’t take expressed milk in a bottle until you could sit up and feed? Then stand there waiting for you to hand baby back?

Can you see why that might irritate people wanting a child free relaxing salon experience?

It’s discriminatory to stop a mother bf in public or places like restaurants and shops where babies are allowed in the first place. It’s not discriminatory to say she can’t bring her bf baby into a child free zone like a salon or spa, being breastfed doesn’t mean the infant is exempt!

I breastfed for 3+ years, I left baby with DH and bottles of expressed milk (yes they can be taught to feed from a bottle without nipple confusion, so I can see why the salon owner was confused!) If yours will only take breast you either wait until baby can take both and can be left with someone the whole time you’re in the salon, or you find a salon that doesn’t mind you feeding in the chair, that allows kids, that has a child friendly policy.

FGS🙄🙄

OP addressed most of these points.

It wasn't ever going to take 45 minutes. Newborns feed a lot sure, but can easily have a quick feed, then a longer one later as needed.

So much of your post is borderline hysterical 'but what about?'

Most of this won't happen, if the baby had to come in to be fed, it really would have been fine. So much drama.

Cancel the appt, OP. YANBU.

they’re acting illegally in refusing services to a breastfeeding mother

Yes, they are.

YABU

You are NOT being unreasonable and this is just horrible.

My babies refused bottles too and without making arrangements like this, you end up being trapped.

I am furious reading this. We need to support mothers with babies to be part of normal life and we should reject all the obstacles put in the way of this happening.

Can someone link to the regulations that mean adult only places have to make and exception for breast fed babies please.

I think YABU - I don’t think you can really breastfeed a baby in the middle of a hair appointment, and you cannot exactly ask the hairdresser to stop the 20-30 mins that a two month old takes to finish a feed (mine was definitely taking that long at that age).

I waited until mine was old enough to go a few hours between feeds. It was a pain, but you have to be practical.

I don’t think the no child policies trump your right to breastfeed. The only places you are not allowed to feed in public are men-only spaces (things like religious segregation) and where there is a legitimate health and safety risk. H&S could be a factor, but they’d need a risk assessment to explain why specifically a breastfeeding baby (and not a child generally on the premises) would be a risk.

[quote Therealjudgejudy]@stackthecats...I'm not in the uk...brexit was not a reason for calling th op unreasonable. People are allowed their own opinions. I gave mine, so did many others. Just because you dont agree, no need to push your opinions on different posters is all..[/quote]
People can give their opinions, also doesn't stop me from pointing out when they are wrong. Why are you het up about me mentioning Brexit? If you're not in the UK then you probably haven't noticed the opinionated anti-law, anti-woman, anti-expert turn in UK society since 2016, but I can assure you it's very much here and present.

Witness the number of people who are clearly not lawyers and have no idea wtf they are on about, giving their "legal" opinions about the interpretation of discrimination law on this thread, with total disregard for whether they actually are knowledgeable about it in any way.

I am furious reading this. We need to support mothers with babies to be part of normal life and we should reject all the obstacles put in the way of this happening.

Yep.

'Breastfeeding in public

Breastfeeding in public places is protected under the Equality Act 2010 for as long as you wish to breastfeed your baby, toddler or small child without an age restriction. Protection covers any public space from parks and leisure facilities to public buildings and using public transport. You’re also protected in shops, hotels, restaurants, hospitals, theatres and cinemas. Maternity Action 3 summarises the legislation regarding breastfeeding in public places in UK and provides a list of places to go for more information:
Excerpt From
Breastfeeding in Public Places, Maternity Action, 2016

The Equality Act 2010 says that it is sex discrimination to treat a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding. It applies to anyone providing services, benefits, facilities and premises to the public, public bodies, further and higher education bodies and association. Service providers include most organisations that deal directly with the public. Service providers must not discriminate, harass or victimise a woman because she is breastfeeding. Discrimination includes refusing to provide a service, providing a lower standard of service or providing a service on different terms. Therefore, a cafe owner cannot ask you to stop breastfeeding or refuse to serve you.

If you are discriminated against you can make a complaint to the organisation who has discriminated against you and if it can’t be resolved to your satisfaction you can bring an action in a county court in England and Wales or a sheriffs court in Scotland.'

breastfeeding.support/uk-breastfeeding-laws/

I would be delighted to see a tiny newborn popping in while I was having my hair cut. It wouldn’t disturb me at all, even if he/she cried, as babies can do. (Especially happy to see that their mum had managed a short break and time for herself too.)

From the point of view of discrimination, there isn't any and I can see where others are coming from in calling you unreasonable BUT I also very clearly remember how hard it was in the early weeks having had my first child and the frequency of feeding. She used to feed constantly and I did not leave her for even an hour due to fear of her needing a feed in my absence. A lot of those who have written nasty replies either did not experience that or have forgotten how it felt.

Personally, I would have found another hairdresser the moment the first person said no rather than arguing. If they do not want to facilitate a short feed then I would prefer to take my business somewhere that is open to allowing a baby to feed discreetly for 10 mins.

YABU - your breastfeeding schedule is not the hairdresser's problem.

@Lemonelderflower

chameleon it’s really unusual for women not to provide enough milk, though. More often than not the pattern is that a baby loses more than 10% of his birth weight and there are all sorts of reasons for this and formula is introduced but some babies really won’t take to the breast after formula milk. Mine didn’t.

I am honestly passionate about women choosing to feed how THEY want and how best suits THEM but I do feel at times this is a luxury formula feeding mums have and breastfeeding mums don’t. And that’s because bottle feeding is so ‘normalised.’

1-5% of women have insufficient supply. That’s up to one in 20.

I agree that sometimes babies won’t take to the breast after being given a bottle, however upsetting that outcome is (and I know about it) though, if it’s clinically necessary to supplement at that early stage then doctors don’t fuck around waiting for baby to lose even more weight, the priority is to get calories into them as babies continuing to lose weight past 10% can become very poorly very quickly.

It’s an interesting perception as I found personally that breastfeeding was far more supported and encouraged from all angles really than bottle feeding (even when people didn’t know what was in the bottle!). I found breastfeeding was seen as normal and bottle feeding as a deviation, not giving your child ‘the best’, laziness and so forth. But the goal of course is for everyone who feeds their baby to feel like breast and bottle feeding are both normalised. Because they are both very normal things to do and both very common :)

Anyway this has been a digression and OP got sorted so I’ll leave my contributions there.

@thirstyformore

Yanbu and I think some of the comments here are really harsh! You should be able to quietly feed a baby whilst having your hair done. It's not a big deal. I doubt any of the other clients would even notice. Since when did babies become such a burden on society?

This YANBU. I would definitely be changing my hairdressers if I was you OP.

We have terrible attitudes in this country to bf. No wonder we have crap rates of it when we think it's ok to tell a woman she can't do basic things because she bfs.

There is the legal argument.

There is also the argument that if my hairdressers were this bloody unhelpful and unaccommodating I'd find a new hairdresser.

@ThankYouHunkyJesus you are legally entitled to breastfeed wherever the fuck you want

Really??? That doesn’t seem correct... I mean..

• in a sterile operating room prepared for surgery
• while flying an airplane
• while driving
• while sitting in a sauna in a spa

Hmmm

It is discriminatory because it is treating a woman unfavourably due to breastfeeding.

I sympathize OP, but YABU. Surely you can understand why some people prefer a child-free (and by extension baby-free) environment?

That does not state that it overrides the adult only policy and I know for a fact that the Scottish policy does state anywhere the child is entitled to be so would not be classed as discrimination in Scotland.

• Grognonne

The policy is no children. It’s got nothing to do with breastfeeding or discrimination. Nightclubs have a no under 18 policy. Would you expect them to let your husband bring in a baby for you to feed?*

Yes. I did this once at an over 18s bar where a friend was holding a party. My DH brought my newborn in to be fed.

@Justforphoto

That does not state that it overrides the adult only policy and I know for a fact that the Scottish policy does state anywhere the child is entitled to be so would not be classed as discrimination in Scotland.

But by the wording alone it does

Just find somewhere else

Flying an airplane and getting your hair done are not the same things

Everyday sort of normal life.

Having lunch in a cafe - should you be able to breastfeed: yes.

Shopping - should you be able to breastfeed: yes.

Meeting your bank manager to discuss your mortgage - should you be able to breastfeed: yes.

Getting your hair done falls into the above categories. Not bizarre and highly improbable things most of us will likely never do.

@Justforphoto

Can someone link to the regulations that mean adult only places have to make and exception for breast fed babies please.

No they can't because it doesn't exist.

OP if they can't rinse the colour out at the right time because you're feeding then and it goes wrong/looks shite would you pay up and accept it or would you complain expecting them to fix it? They're up to their eyes now and haven't time for anyone to anyone going overtime anyway.