To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?

[ArabellaScott]

Mridhul Wadhwa has just been appointed CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The job was advertised as for women only. Mridhul is a transwoman (born male) without a Gender Recognition Certificate.

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/05/new-boss-for-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

“The job wasn’t open to men.”

Have I misunderstood?
I thought this was the situation:
The job wasn’t open to males
Midrul is male
Therefore Midrul wasn’t eligible
Yet Midrul was hired

I’m not sure you have any evidence that the ERCC won’t be providing a good service for raped women and won’t be getting good outcomes

Given the CEOs views, evidenced by the twitter thread posted above, on women who question TW in single sex spaces there is clear evidence that this service will not continue to provide the single sex service it was set up to provide.

This will mean that women will feel they have nowhere to go if they don't want to encounter males either as service users or as counsellors.

We know, from the ample evidence supplied on this thread, that it is essential that women have access to single sex service for trauma related reasons.

So no i do not accept what you say. Women will lose out.

@AfternoonToffee

The job wasn’t open to men.

Well the appointment shows otherwise.

MW does not hold a GRC and self id currently has no legal basis in the UK.

I can't say that this relates to MW. There may be multiple transwomen without gender recognition certificates, who also work in the Scottish rape crisis sector.

But this poor child can't be the only rape victim who couldn't deal with such a rape counsellor.

When my daughter was 14 she was raped by 4 men in scotland, where JK lives. When we specified the need for a female counsellor our agencies thought it was ok for a self ID Twoman with no GRC to counsel her as TWAW. Do you think maybe JK knows more than you do?#AskDanielRadcliffe

twitter.com/hightreebud/status/1323965436334133249?s=19

FWR regulars may have a different view but I wonder how much of that is driven by ideology?

It came from listening to service users, who stated how important it was to have single-sex service provision. This was most recently evidenced in the Scottish administration’s Forensic Services bill, which passed reflecting this need.
Now, one can pretend that these same Scottish survivors of sexual violence have no need of sex-specific services outside of the medical examiner, or one could accept that their argument is not in the spirit of the issue being discussed.
Consequently, one could then observe that when the evidence of real life contradicts one’s argument, maintaining said argument is undoubtedly an ideological position.

@TidyDancer

It's not transphobic to believe there should be women-only services and spaces. This appointment is really quite worrying.

As is the fact that Whahwa applied for the role in the first place. Trans women know they are not biological women. They know the basis on which a woman - a victim of the invasive crime of rape in particular - would fear them, and yet still assume their 'right' to insinuate themselves into spaces reserved for women who are in the most vulnerable state they will probably ever experience. Yet the 'right' to validation is still seen as more important.

I would like to know why traumatised female victims are seen as fair game and are more or less consistently targeted. Rape victims just want men to leave them the fuck alone. It's almost as if putting them through the indignity of that assault in the first place isn't enough. Like the crime itself it's a power thing: 'we will do what we like to you and there's nothing you can do to stop it'. It's sinister, it's invasive, and any trans women worth their salt, or with any inclination of what it was truly like to be the sex they insist they identify with, would know it for what it was.

In response to a PP, yes, it's equally terrible that men are raped, albeit in much smaller numbers. Women sorted out our support networks in response to that need. Men will therefore need to step up and do the same for their own sex. Likewise trans women. It's not appropriate for traumatised rape victims to be expected to share space with male-bodied people, especially intact ones. Women are not support vessels, nor are we responsible for fixing everyone else's problems. That particularly goes for members of the group who are so persistently causing us those harmful problems (in terms of sex crime pretty much exclusively so) ; namely men.

They can scream transphobia all they want in response to that view: I really no longer give a shit. They (the more vociferous activists) have long considered rape victims to be fair game to further massage their egos and power trips. As far as I can see no one has even challenged them on this disgusting tactic.

And as far as I'm concerned that whole noise can get to fuck.

I’m not sure you have any evidence that the ERCC won’t be providing a good service for raped women and won’t be getting good outcomes.

They have not started or only just. We don’t ‘have’ any evidence as yet as their is nothing at all to collect now for future outcomes.

Not sure what you mean here.

@Anovaneway

I had the same when I came out of a changing room in H&M in London and found a transwoman assistant

They weren’t actually in the changing room with you I would hope though.

In a loo in Oxford they followed me in and ( due to past trauma) I was really uncomfortable about a male in my space and they just smirked .

That sounds horrible. Presumably they’re not working in a RCC.

I’ve already agreed that as per the law trans people can be excluded from single sex services if required. I’m going to leave it there because people are getting upset and I don’t want this to get worse

I don't know what's creepiest....your assertion that raped women object to males in their safe spaces because of learned "ideology", your prioritisation of a male person's ego above safe or even best possible services for raped women or your disingenuous pretence that finally, having run out of things to be proved wrong about, you're finally leaving because you're just so worried that you might be upsetting people.

@Anovaneway

I had the same when I came out of a changing room in H&M in London and found a transwoman assistant

They weren’t actually in the changing room with you I would hope though.

In a loo in Oxford they followed me in and ( due to past trauma) I was really uncomfortable about a male in my space and they just smirked .

That sounds horrible. Presumably they’re not working in a RCC.

I’ve already agreed that as per the law trans people can be excluded from single sex services if required. I’m going to leave it there because people are getting upset and I don’t want this to get worse

"They weren't actually in the change room with you"

They may not have been in the change room with her but they were in an area where women are expected to undress and most men, unless they are selfish and thoughtless at best, abusive at worst, don't hang around.

"Presumably they're not working at a RCC" - well perhaps not now, but given the fact that legal and biological males can now become CEO's, even if the job description specifies a woman, it's arguably only a matter of time.

You sound very dismissive of women and their rights and needs.

Many women, for many valid reasons, want single sex spaces. Why is that up for debate?

@Helleofabore

I’m not sure you have any evidence that the ERCC won’t be providing a good service for raped women and won’t be getting good outcomes.

They have not started or only just. We don’t ‘have’ any evidence as yet as their is nothing at all to collect now for future outcomes.

Not sure what you mean here.

Of course it makes no sense. I got the feeling all those posts were for the purpose of confusion.

Who the hell says 'a good service for raped women'?

Who the hell says 'a good service for raped women'?

I know. It's just involuntary, isn't it.

“I’m not sure you have any evidence that the ERCC won’t be providing a good service for raped women and won’t be getting good outcomes.”
I think a better question would be, would they get better outcomes or more good outcomes if the CEO was female

I wonder if we met the same assistant in H&M... they weren’t very impressed when I lent over the counter (ladies wear tills) and said ‘oh look we’ve got the same trousers on!’ (which we did).

You’d thought I’d said ‘you’ve got poo on your shoes’, the sour look they gave me.

Maybe they were thinking they were looking glam and trendy - and a fat 50 year old scruffy Scot burst that bubble!

@DrSbaitso

Yup. Those are the most passive-aggressive flowers I've ever seen!

(They may even outdo the story of the young man who insisted on having dead flowers delivered to the woman who spurned him - & the florist charged him the full price of live ones .)

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Jesus wept!

The mission creep is amazing and some of you are entirely missing the point.

The job was specifically advertised to be filled by a female only.

• the succesful candidate is not female, does not hold a GRC, is male bodied and lied to get into the sector in the first place.

• any man who wanted to apply to be a CEO, but did not because the EA2010 stipulation has been discriminated against.

• EVERY woman applying for EVERY job shpuld be looking at this and wondering why legislation designed to protect women, in life, jobs etc, is being subverted. Why the law is being undermined?

• EVERY woman needs to look beyond the feelings about transwomen and men and look at the legalities of this. Self ID is NOT a law. GRC does NOT mean a person has changed sex, it means that for many but NOT ALL legal purposes, that person should be accorded the legal acknowledgement of their chosen gender.

• Accepting the legality of this appointment without question is not being kind, inclusive, etc. It is acquiescing in the dismantling of women's right.

• Querying this appointment is not being transphobic. It is recognising and disagreeing with the continued undermining of women's rights.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!

yes - this - :(

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

Yes. 100%. Do you think people who have been mugged by an Indian person should be able to have a white-only space? Do you think children who were the victim of paedophilia should be able to have a child only space? Do you think NHS victims of assault whilst on the job should have an NHS only space?

No only do gender-segregated safe spaces exclude male victims of abuse, they also alienate female victims of abuse by female perpetrators. They create an incorrect perception that abuse is solely male against female, making women less aware of and resilient to any abuse that differs from that norm.

You have a right to a safe space from abuse, not to a safe space from innocent people within the demographic you believe your abuser is a part of.

Isn't this the same person who talked about women having an orgasm whilst they are raped?

I seem to remember commentary about that some time ago.

Generally though Transwomen can be Rape Counsellors so presumably if this increases, women won't use the services as they won't want to talk through their rape experience with a be-penised person.

Then it should have been open to all men to apply

I wonder why it wasn't, in the circumstances

Sonny what are you talking about only men (or those with a penis if you prefer) can commit rape.

SonnyWinds

That is some post there SonnyWinds. I am not quite sure which part to tackle first.

@Fernlake

Who the hell says 'a good service for raped women'?

I know. It's just involuntary, isn't it.

It was in response to this comment form DrSbaitso:

you do not care about the best person for the job or the best service for raped women.

Perhaps I should have said best instead of good?

ERCC’s view is that MW was the best person for the job. Your view is that she wasn’t. People are allowed to disagree.

Why would a person with none of the life experience of women, even be accepted as a candidate for this role? Women aren’t there as props to validate men. Women who need female-only services should never have to face men, it’s appalling.

@SonnyWinds

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

Yes. 100%. Do you think people who have been mugged by an Indian person should be able to have a white-only space? Do you think children who were the victim of paedophilia should be able to have a child only space? Do you think NHS victims of assault whilst on the job should have an NHS only space?

No only do gender-segregated safe spaces exclude male victims of abuse, they also alienate female victims of abuse by female perpetrators. They create an incorrect perception that abuse is solely male against female, making women less aware of and resilient to any abuse that differs from that norm.

You have a right to a safe space from abuse, not to a safe space from innocent people within the demographic you believe your abuser is a part of.

Mugging, paedophilia, violent crime, sexual crime. Almost always committed by men.

@SonnyWinds

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

Yes. 100%. Do you think people who have been mugged by an Indian person should be able to have a white-only space? Do you think children who were the victim of paedophilia should be able to have a child only space? Do you think NHS victims of assault whilst on the job should have an NHS only space?

No only do gender-segregated safe spaces exclude male victims of abuse, they also alienate female victims of abuse by female perpetrators. They create an incorrect perception that abuse is solely male against female, making women less aware of and resilient to any abuse that differs from that norm.

You have a right to a safe space from abuse, not to a safe space from innocent people within the demographic you believe your abuser is a part of.

“I am unable to comprehend trauma-informed care, and (hear me out) survivors of sexual violence who need it are bigots.”

ERCC’s view is that MW was the best person for the job.
Well no, the ERCC advertised for a woman so they hold the view that MW was the best woman for the job.

@SonnyWinds

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

Yes. 100%. Do you think people who have been mugged by an Indian person should be able to have a white-only space? Do you think children who were the victim of paedophilia should be able to have a child only space? Do you think NHS victims of assault whilst on the job should have an NHS only space?

No only do gender-segregated safe spaces exclude male victims of abuse, they also alienate female victims of abuse by female perpetrators. They create an incorrect perception that abuse is solely male against female, making women less aware of and resilient to any abuse that differs from that norm.

You have a right to a safe space from abuse, not to a safe space from innocent people within the demographic you believe your abuser is a part of.

Right. So women who have been raped must be forced to accept a mixed sex space, to encourage them to accept males?

Do you understand why the majority of women who have been raped (as we have said, only a male could have raped them) will want a space to heal where they are not going to encounter a male body? In fact, a male voice can be traumatising, so it's not just spaces. Female victims of rape want to speak to women to help process their trauma.

And you are here telling them they're akin to racists.

ERCC’s view is that MW was the best person for the job. Your view is that she wasn’t. People are allowed to disagree.

Of course. But I am basing it on what MW has said and done. And you're basing it on...?