To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?

[ArabellaScott]

Mridhul Wadhwa has just been appointed CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The job was advertised as for women only. Mridhul is a transwoman (born male) without a Gender Recognition Certificate.

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/05/new-boss-for-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

I agree with you op and I’m not a transphobe. I’m just not falling over myself to welcome males into a female space. Females need to have safe spaces and it’s not always appropriate to have trans people there.

To the people saying her appointment is an excellent choice etc etc - do you actually know this lady or are you just falling over yourselves to be supportive and turning this into a political issue?

My daughter had to recount her assault to a policeman recently. I was furious that it was a man questioning her. I would also not want a trans person. Some spaces need to be female only.

Single sex services are being intentionally targeted and removed, regardless of the cost to vulnerable female people who need them, because male born people do not want female people to be allowed them. This is not ok. Scolding women for noticing and minding about this is rather like getting reproachful and stating your rights to stand as and where you like when someone asks you if you'd kindly get off their foot because you're standing on it.

This is so beautifully put.

I also suspect that some women have lived vert cocooned lives and have never felt the force of an aggressive entitled man. So they are perfectly happy to be 'inclusive' and open minded, but don't give a single thought to other women who are immediately wary of being alone in a room with a strange man, for example.

It's pure selfishness and a complete lack of imagination and empathy.

I almost envy them because this is infuriating to watch if you do give a shit about vulnerable women.

@BlitheringBlathers it is so difficult, I have been in a similar situation, a long time ago now and before I had DC, and it took me a very long time to be able to leave.
A college course sounds like a brilliant idea, anything you can do to make things better for yourself is worth it. I found that anything (large or small) to bolster my courage and self esteem were what built up to me being able to leave. I took up jogging (wouldn`t have been possible if I had DC though), it got me out of the house for half an hour a day, and getting fitter and stronger physically really helped my mental health.
I really hope things get better for you soon x

Just because the exceptions can be used doesn’t mean they have to be

Correct, but ERCC CHOSE to use the exemption in advertising the post.

There’s nothing to say trans women have to be excluded from ‘woman’ or that accepting a trans woman as a woman in a position of employment means that you have to accept all males. Where does it actually say that?

The equality act 2010 defines woman and man.

There’s nothing to say trans women have to be excluded from ‘woman'

Other than the fact that a woman, no qualifiers, is an adult human of the reproductive sex class capable of producing ova.

And sometimes, that matters.

There’s nothing to say trans women have to be excluded from ‘woman'

So what about a position that was only open to transwomen?

By your argument, any woman could apply for it because they are exactly the same thing.

Would that seem fair?

@PoleToPole

Blithering I`m so sorry, you deserve so very much more. You shouldn`t have to be resigned to anything, its a doubly cruel situation x

This.

Blithering, wishing you strength and peace. Should you ever wish to take steps to get out, know that there are many women (lots here on MN) who will be behind you. There's a wealth of experience and knowledge on here, lots of women who've been through these situations, and an absolute tonne of support for you. All the very best to you and your son.

@Anovaneway

Just because the exceptions can be used doesn’t mean they have to be.

There’s nothing to say trans women have to be excluded from ‘woman’ or that accepting a trans woman as a woman in a position of employment means that you have to accept all males. Where does it actually say that?

Some of you also seem to assume that most vulnerable women would not see or accept MW as a woman. Or would be unhappy to work with her.

You have been posting on FWR for long enough to know that there are a great many women who would not accept MW as being a female when that is their wish.

And there are people sharing on this very thread stating it is an issue.

So, tell us again, why even ONE female should be excluded due to their needs not being met by a Rape Crisis Centre set up by females for their needs due to a person who is male ignoring their needs.

And tell us again, what MW has done to make sure traumatised females are listened to and catered for in their past role that counters the evidence that has been posted here.

In answer to the original question: No, I don't. There should be a biological woman at the helm.

As for this person talking about women orgasming while being raped - WTAF?? That's one of the grimmest things I've ever heard. It sounds like a very, very sick male fantasy.

if there was mutual respect and tolerance, ie that mixed sex and trans inclusive services were provided alongside female only single sex services, with intersectional understanding that some female people need single sex to mean single sex and this is not an act of aggression or immorality, there would be no problem. Women would never have had to have stand up for their boundaries if this had been the case. Single sex services are being intentionally targeted and removed, regardless of the cost to vulnerable female people who need them, because male born people do not want female people to be allowed them. This is not ok. Scolding women for noticing and minding about this is rather like getting reproachful and stating your rights to stand as and where you like when someone asks you if you'd kindly get off their foot because you're standing on it.

Yes. Exactly.

@Chev2021

I can't believe this question is even being asked. SHE is a women.

For those hiding their ignorance behind a technicality - a lot of jobs advertise certain qualifications/qualities that the successful candidate doesn't have. Surely, having the best person for the job is most important, especially for such a vital organisation.

I sincerly hope that this opinion of the trans community fades out soon.

This is an enlightening thread with some very strange replies, some that totally miss the point.

As I understand it, this position was advertised using the exemption/exception that the application must be female. Males and even those with a Gender Recognition Certificate are ineligible, yet you think even though they’ve decided it’s important enough to invoke it, they should then ignore it? Very strange!

Not only was the successful candidate ineligible, looking at other things posted, it seems it’s a highly dubious hiring!
I can’t get past voting against survivors being allowed to ask (not even it being par for the course) for someone of the same sex!
There was also another part saying they “avoid” doing some part of the job, that doesn’t put them in a good light, they could have said they delegate or other people are better placed to do it!
I can’t help but think there must be more to this hiring.
Women getting fucked over, yet again, makes me mad!

I can’t get past voting against survivors being allowed to ask (not even it being par for the course) for someone of the same sex!

Awful.

This is putting the need for validation above the need for violated women to feel and be safe from males.

@Verv

This is putting the need for validation above the need for violated women to feel and be safe from males.

yes, absolutely.

Some of you (not all, of course) seriously need to consider what you would actually say to a person face to face and step away from being keyboard warriors.

I appreciate and respect your personal belief that you are able to view a TW as a woman in all situations.

It is necessary to equally appreciate and respect that not all people hold the same belief as you, or have the luxury of being able to accept mixed sex provisions and all services from someone regardless of their sex.

You're essentially saying here that the need to be kind to a vulnerable male person would preclude women from actually standing up for the needs of a vulnerable female person who needed access to single sex spaces. It would not. I don't intend to be unkind to anyone, but I will not always put a male person's best interests and preferences first, because I believe in equality and that female people matter too. And in situations of single sex female resources being used to prove a political belief around inclusion, I will have been driven to the discourtesy of having to be very plain around the truth. MW has chosen to put female people in that position; it is hardly fair at that point to rely on female people wishing to protect MW's feelings or being too afraid to speak out and so just quietly surrendering their rights. Which means women, such as the woman sharing her experience here, simply having to walk away and a service failing her.

Failing her.

That's not anything MW can be proud of or call inclusive, is it?

Women orgasming through rape??

I've entered a new fucking universe here.

Can you imagine the tiny, tiny % in the world where that has ever happened/been 'reported' and now it's a fucking 'thing'?

I give up. I've never been raped - thank the fucking Lord - but I would bet my life and my children's lives that my body wouldn't do that.

Utterly disgusted.

Like many posters, I have experienced ongoing sexual violence, it was in an abusive relationship and I left not knowing which way was up. Sometimes since I have taken measures to feel safer or more comfortable- like seeking out a female driving instructor. If I lived alone I may well seek females trades people too, like decorators. That's my choice. I have had counselling twice and wanted a woman. When I had counselling the first time to try and deal with my experiences I was a mess. My thinking was a mess, pretty nihilistic, my behaviour was a dangerous mess. I was very early 20s, my experience with the police had made things much worse, I'd lost faith in professionals. If, after I had finally summoned up the courage to seek the help I needed, I been presented with a transwomen as my counsellor I honestly think that might have been one headf*ck too many for me.

And that was before social media. Imagine seeing your counsellor saying they cope with the stress of the job by avoiding seeing the victims beyond the minimum and making sure they have time to prat about with colleagues. And that you don't have the right to choose who examines you. And they mislead to get the job...

Short answer OP, no YANBU. Because they did not meet the requirements of the post (as well as being unsuitable.)
Is this the sort of organisation a FOI request could be done to see how many - if any - other applicants there were and what their backgrounds are?

Women are the bottom of the heap. Every time. Our needs and rights and the very laws that are there to protect us are being trampled on in the name of ideology.

I'm sick to the teeth of hearing that transwomen are the most vulnerable in society. It's just not true. Not in this country.

Some also need to seriously consider what they say face to face with an elderly female relative who is scared and humiliated when they are told that they cannot specify the sex of the home are helper who is being sent to help them bathe and change clothes. And if they do specify they risk being called a bigot and having service possibly withdraw.

Or tell me face to face, suppose when I’m lying in a hospital bed, that the ward isn’t mixed at all, it’s a ladies ward, when I can see with my eyes that there are male bodies individuals also lying a few feet away in their nightclothes.

Or to a woman presenting herself at a DV hostel, on saying that she is scared to death of men, asking if the hostel is women only. Would you look her in the eyes and turn her away because she has the audacity to say that she is scared to share a room with X on this basis? Because that has happened.

Or tell me face to face, suppose when I’m lying in a hospital bed, that the ward isn’t mixed at all, it’s a ladies ward, when I can see with my eyes that there are male bodies individuals also lying a few feet away in their nightclothes.

About 3 years ago, I had induction with an NHS Trust.
The Equality and Diversity lead instructed employees to say “this is a women’s ward, there are no men here” in response to a similar query as yours.

The Equality and Diversity lead instructed employees to say “this is a women’s ward, there are no men here” in response to a similar query as yours.

And puredrop what about if I had asked if this was a ‘female’ ward? Just out of interest.

@minniemomo

The best person for the job is the right person to hire. Sex discrimination is wrong (and yes I have had a male midwife)

Men and trans women can be raped too anyway.

And men and tw are most welcome to set up their own refuge any time they like. Not one person is stopping them.

@Helleofabore It would have been exactly the same. It wouldn’t matter whether you said male or men, the same response would be given.

So thepuredrop basically they were instructed to lie or to use the Stonewall definition of woman rather than the legal definition.

I find it fascinating, 15 years ago when I was breastfeeding my son, I had to be admitted to hospital for emergency surgery. There were no beds in the women's wards so they had to put me and baby in a side room on the mens surgical ward. I had to sign a disclaimer that I understood that they were placing me on a ward with men and accepted that.

The cognitive dissonance is astonishing along with the complete lack of safeguarding.

Of course transwomen pose no risk to women but given there is no way of telling whether someone is really dysphoric or not this opens the door to men who want easy access to women. How do we tell the difference between the two!

Can you imagine how that would feel? When you are ill and vulnerable, or approaching for refuge, to be gaslit in this way. I think many women in these circumstances would really struggle to express their reservations. They should never be put in the situation that they have to. And the fact a rape crisis centre sees fit to put them in that position is so disturbing. Even though they don’t agree and have the TWAW belief, you’d imagine that the governors/ managers of such organisations could sit down and imagine that some women may feel this discomfort/ (terror?) and think about how to design services that work for all involved. But no, the vulnerable are vilified and silenced. It’s so upsetting.