To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?

[ArabellaScott]

Mridhul Wadhwa has just been appointed CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The job was advertised as for women only. Mridhul is a transwoman (born male) without a Gender Recognition Certificate.

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/05/new-boss-for-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

130. Mridul Wadhwa told us that the provision was:
"discriminatory to transsexual people especially trans women. I genuinely believe that there is no space for it in the gender-based violence sector and that it has no place in violence against women work. I was unaware of its existence until a few weeks ago. I have worked in the violence against women sector since 2005 and have never known for it to be used. I am disappointed to think that someone has the right to refuse work to me and others like me in my sector just because they think that I might not be a woman."

Revolting. Wadhwa’s desire to have a job which they regard as “fun” (yes, they have used that word to describe their work) trumps the needs of traumatised women. Men’s wants over women’s needs. Vulnerable and endangered women can stay away from these services so that Wadwha can have their fun job.

It's like living in a version of the Emperor's new clothes for those of us that get it: yelling into the abyss that the Emperor is naked while everyone else celebrates how stunning and brave he looks.

Yep.

The best person for the job is the right person to hire. Sex discrimination is wrong (and yes I have had a male midwife)

Men and trans women can be raped too anyway.

The last sentence in the quote. They have self ID which is as legal as the paper it’s written on (as my dad used to say about handshake agreements). So what do they mean - do they not understand or not care about the law?

Why not set up a specialist centre for the care of both sexes or specifically for trans victims (I am sure there are particular issues to them that would need specialist care). Why push to dismantle existing services which women prize?

Yes absolutely the best person for the job.

Honesty is critical in this instance. Applying for a job that has legally specified something that you can’t prove you are eligible for shows a lack of honesty.

Utterly, utterly sick of all this trans stuff on Mumsnet

It isn't "trans stuff" it is about Safeguarding children and vulnerable people, protecting women's sex based rights and ensuring that the ability to recognise that sex is binary, immutable and matters in society is not prohibited. As this is a parenting site with majority of members being women, it should not be a surprise that the issues are of concern to many.

I find that people who say that gloss over any potential risks and only focus on the ‘poor victims’ (as they see it).

@minniemomo

The best person for the job is the right person to hire. Sex discrimination is wrong (and yes I have had a male midwife)

Men and trans women can be raped too anyway.

The job was advertised as being women-only, for good reason. How is the best person, in those circumstances, a male?

The overwhelming majority of rape victims are female. And men and transwomen who have been raped will have been raped by a man. Being confronted with a male person when you access these services is traumatic for survivors of rape.

Men and trans women can be raped too anyway.

They can. They’re not subjected to sexual violence on the scale that women are though. Women will sadly be the majority of the victims who need support.

@PoleToPole

I think the fact that the person in question is trans is almost a separate, yet parallel issue. If this were a natal female she would still be wildly unsuitable on the basis of reported character, ethics and actions.

If a natal woman was reported:

• To look bored and be checking their phone whilst supposed to be listening to and counselling a rape survivor.
• Lied on their job application.
• Was actively involved in trying to remove the right for women and girls to request be intimately examined by a natal woman after being raped.
• Laughed when female rape survivors tried to explain why they need a natal woman to perform the intimate examinations.
• Changed political parties when their current party would not lobby for preventing women and girls requesting a natal female for intimate examinations.
• Made public comments about women orgasming and feeling pleasure whilst being raped.*

ALL of those would make the person wholly unsuitable for any position in a rape crisis centre. How on Earth could anyone argue otherwise? In this instance in makes no difference whether the person is a natal female, trans or a natal male, their character clearly could not be less suited to work of this nature.

*This can be a response to the trauma, and should never be held against the victim obviously, but the fact it is even mentioned by someone who vehemently wants to remove the right for women and girls to request a natal woman to intimately examine them paints this in an questionable light.

Reading this thread the thing that kept coming to mind is why would anyone want to remove the right for women and girls to request a natal female intimate examiner?
Anyone involved in this work, and any HCP should always be putting the patient/service user first. It is about whatever helps the patient the most, I simply cannot fathom why anyone would want to cause more trauma to suffering patients if it is within their power to prevent it.
It would also raise serious questions regarding the professional ethics of any person not putting the needs of traumatised, suffering patients/service users first.

I agree with everything you have written here but you know what? I really feel as if I've fallen through the looking glass.

Why are people focusing on a self absorbed MAN instead of the abused and vulnerable WOMEN who want single sex spaces?

As women it is our biology that makes us vulnerable. Why is this being wilfully ignored in favour of pandering to the demands of a vocal minority with some very nasty supporters?

I could weep.

@minniemomo

The best person for the job is the right person to hire. Sex discrimination is wrong (and yes I have had a male midwife)

Men and trans women can be raped too anyway.

The best person for the job is the right person to hire.

Yes, absolutely. Perhaps you would like to develop how the best person for a job advertised for women only is a biological male who has openly acknowledged that they were deliberately evasive with the truth on previous job applications.

Sex discrimination is wrong

Yes, it is, under most circumstances. Perhaps you would like to develop how objecting to a post, which is legally advertised as being for women only, being given to a biological male is wrong, however.

and yes I have had a male midwife

Um, well done? Since men can be midwives and thus presumably women have experience of having male midwives, I have no idea what the hell point you're making here?

Men and transwomen can be raped too anyway

Yes, they can. Well observed. Your point?

Why push to dismantle existing services which women prize?

James Morton (Scottish Trans Alliance) said of their focus on changing the women's prison policy:

‘We strategized – we strategized – that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise’.

StillTISH article
gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/09/19/ministry-of-justice-new-policy-on-caring-for-transgender-prisoners/

Morton was reported as saying at a transactivist conference, 'We're Still Here' in 2018,

"James Morton gave some insight into tactics the TRAs will probably start using in England and Wales as they were successful in Scotland.

He said the TRAs need to build allies in mainstream women and children’s organisations so it looks like they care about them.

He also said what worked in Scotland's was a “constructive, friendly, innocent” tone when debating or in dialogue with the GC side. To be mindful about who is watching- essentially like what we do with the lurkers on the FWR board. To make the TRAs look like the reasonable side...

James Morton talked about how they can get rid of “gender” markers on things like IT systems and places where it isn’t relevant- apparently GDPR might be able to help them here.

JM’s campaigning tips were to gain trust in the local community- and to approach moderate feminists, “correct misconceptions and forgive any ignorance they may have displayed”. They want to gain trust and make themselves likeable.

Apparently small acts like helping to campaign about period poverty or retweeting the local branch of Women’s Aid will make a difference and result in some reciprocation. They want to make it look like they care about Women's issues so they don’t appear threatening"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

Transactivists have sought to capture the women's sector and Mridul Wadwha has played/is playing a key role in this.

Sad that no female born woman was up to the top well paid job.

The best person for the job is the right person to hire. Sex discrimination is wrong (and yes I have had a male midwife) Men and trans women can be raped too anyway

Are you genuinely comparing a trained medical professional to someone who has lied and duped their way into a job that was only for those with protected characteristics?

And you're saying this is all ok because TM and TW can be subject to sexual assault? I think you must deliberately be missing the point to wind people up.

Men and trans women can be raped too anyway.

Oh well then. That’s us told.

Did you honestly read any of this thread? Do you actually understand the issues we are discussing?

Not one person has said anything to the contrary that men and transwomen get raped or experience violence or need services such as this. Not one.

Any reason by the way, you did not include transmen in your plea there? Maybe you don’t believe the mantra being pushed then then transwomen are women (or in the case of one poster of this thread that they are female as well!!!)

So, in that case, maybe you have some understanding that females who have been attacked would like the choice to have female only carers? And that this person has tried to deny women that in the past by not declaring that they are male, and has been campaigning to remove avenues for women to do that in law.

So, please. Tell us again in what way a male with a history of lying about their sex, of campaigning to ensure women have no choice but to accept them as ‘just like any other female’, who discusses the effect of rape on women like a fascinating subject rather than as an abhorrent act, who posts pictures of Indian gods holding the heads of women who don’t agree with them on social media, and I could go on, why are you stating this is the best person for the job when they clearly don’t fulfill even the sex requirement advertised by that organization for the job?

Oh and none of the things I have posted about are hard to find on social media if you chose to look for yourself.

So here is another question. Would a female who posted such images, and disclosed such opinions online or in interviews, particularly being quite pleased they misled their employers, be the best choice either?

Sad that no female born woman was up to the top well paid job.

There is no such thing as a male born woman.

Ralph Lucas is a Conservative back bencher in The House of Lords.
May 5th 2020 he published clarification he had received from the government of the definition used for man and woman. This is based in Equality Act 2010
twitter.com/LordLucasCD/status/1257642470692868097

Lord Lucas wrote,

"Definitions. The government has helpfully pointed out the definitions that they use

"Man": from the Equality Act 2010: 'A male of any age'

"Woman": from the Equality Act 2010: 'A female of any age'"

If MW was unaware of its existence then MW doesn’t know the job very well.

Another reason why MW is unfit to hold the position.

Rape Crisis centres should be about supporting the victims of rape and abuse, not validating the people who want to work there.

If the job specifies for a female then pretending to be female is simply lying.
Same as if a job asks for a degree and you lie about that.
Totally dishonest .

Sad that no female born woman was up to the top well paid job

Haven't I heard that before - usually when a younger, less qualified but ambitious man wants the same job - the older, more qualified women are often overlooked.

In this case, I suspect such women were stood aside for similar yet different reasons.

Oh. Any you realise that women who have suffered abuse at the hands of males are also quite within their rights to NOT have a male midwife.

It is never ‘cool’ to simply make a abuse survivor feel belittled because they need a female health care professional. But well done you.

Imagine a job for a charity for people with disabilities advertising for a ceo who has a disability. Someone turns up to interviews in a wheelchair, gets the job and stands up saying I'm not actually disabled. Oh and see those rights you're entitled to by law. I don't think you should have those and I'll actively work to remove them.

There would be outrage. Why is this situation any different?

Graffitiqueen you have hit the nail on the head . Exactly

How on Earth are people with any critical faculties able to bleat about 'discrimination' on this particular subject? This isn't a place for the usual 'trans women are victims' rhetoric. Who are the victims we need to listen to here? The trans women or the raped and traumatised women using the service?

I'm also sick of 'I don't mind it when men perform intimate examinations on me' argument. I don't either, but that doesn't mean I can't empathise and imagine that many women will find that hugely re-traumatising,

Why are people so blinkered? Why can't women ever be viewed as the more vulnerable section of society - even raped and abused women?

Staggering.

There would be outrage. Why is this situation any different?

It isn't. Good analogy.

I wonder. Would the people here in support of MW dismiss a transwoman's concerns if she wanted to go to a service that was trans only and to have a transwoman as her rape counsellor?

Because if the answer is no, why are you doing it to women?