Just seen Billie Eilish report on news. What a load of bollocks...

[ssd]

Honestly it must he a total head nip being young these days. 19 yr olds telling us not to body shame then appearing in vogue in a corset. But said 19 yr old being an expert in telling us how to feel, and of course that stupid trendy word 'empowerment ' used as much as possible. Maybe it was the same in my day, but then social media wasnt about to give eedgits a platform to be an expert on everything. Pop stars always got too much attention, but now with sm it must be increased tenfold.
Thank fuck I'm old and middle aged.

Billie Eilish looks fantastic and some people do not like it. That's all this boils down to.

You really think people on here are commenting because they're jealous of her looking fantastic @ViciousJackdaw ? She looked fantastic in baggy clothes. She'd look fantastic in jeans and a t-shirt, in a dress, in whatever she likes. She looks fantastic on the vogue cover.

This isn't about jealousy, about denigrating or hating on other women. Lots of women, me included, are just sick of the tired trope that wearing underwear on magazine covers is about 'female empowerment'. This isn't about criticising BE- it's clear she has a lot of respect and she is of course entitled to wear whatever she wants. But it's quite surprising to see her go from one extreme to other and I'd wager she knew that people would discuss it. Maybe the reason for doing it in the first place, no?

The thing is though that her 'being different' wasn't any more contrived than 'being sexy'. It was quite obviously engineered to appeal to a particular demographic of teenage girls. I don't understand how having green roots and wearing a tracksuit means you are any more serious as an artist than someone who performs naked. The whole point is we should treat them the same regardless of who they appear.

Also, it is one magazine photoshoot. Designed to be controversial and sell more magazines/click bait. You don't see Harry Styles rocking down to Asda in that dress all the time, do you?!

I don't waste my time reading trite meaningless sleb gossip either.

Yet here you are

Of course she can wear what she wants. Equally I can feel tired that yet another 'different' female in the public arena has ended up following the same well-worn male-mogul-pleasing path as the women who came before. iirc there was an article in the music press when BE was first getting a lot of publicity and being pushed as 'alternative' and 'unique' etc. The article said her image was manufactured and she'd be going down the same path as all the rest of the female teen 'pop/music' stars ... and so it came to pass. I had thought they might let the 'alternative' image play out a bit longer but I guess once you get a Bond theme, they really like to tie you into the traditional corset-wearing ingenue. Not much has changed since the 1950s.

Yep.

It's interesting how many posters really don't get it.

Billie Eilish looks fantastic and some people do not like it.

'You're just jealous because no one would pay to see you half naked' is such a tired old argument to throw at feminists.

Misogynist? Look closer to home
Ageist? How? I'm middle aged myself
Karens? Why? Nobody needs to speak to the manager

Billie Eilish looks fantastic and some people do not like it. That's all this boils down to

Eh? ViciousJackdaw whether she looks fantastic or not is immaterial to this discussion. Of course she looks fantastic. If you think that is all this discussion boils down to then you've totally missed the point.

And honestly, it really pisses me off when other women can only conceive that "jealousy" is the only response that older women can have in response to a younger woman dressed in underwear. It's so crass and unimaginative for one thing. Do you really think that other women are so that thick that we can't have a moral and intellectual and feminist response to it too ?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind Come off it, we wouldn't be reading this thread if BE was a size 20.

She has successfully pushed back at being sexualised when she was younger. You don’t usually go backwards as you get older and let others dictate your fashion choices. She’s likely to become more self-assured in her own choices and what she wants. If she can tell them to do one at 15 she can definitely tell them to do one at 19. Therefore, if she didn’t want to dress that way, it’s safe to assume she wouldn’t.

That could be it. Or it could be (and is probably more likely given what we know of the music industry) that the 'baggy clothes, deliberately unsexual' thing was a good USP for launching this 'feisty empowered young woman' onto the music scene, but that the execs are worried people will get bored of that shtick and know that sex sells, plus these days it can be dressed up as 'a celebration of female sexuality' and 'liberation' so it's definitely the way to go.

I reckon Harry Styles has a hell of a lot more control these days over how he chooses to present himself than Billie Eilish has though @HenryHooverIII. And if wearing the dress was to sell copies, he was able to do so in a way that still involved wearing actual clothes.

I know he also did the beauty papers thing wearing a hell of a lot less but that felt different- because he is male- the expectations around him and the motivations for doing so, and the power balance, seems different.

Billie Eilish is not just another teenager. She’s someone who has walked into the public eye as being about the music, being a musician. Now she appears to be selling out to the modern music industrial machine which has bigger all to do with music: frankly I’m no longer clear on exactly what the difference is between it and other forms of sex work. It doesn’t matter whether she looks ‘fantastic’ according to the current aesthetic: it matters what that aesthetic actually is, and what it means for women everywhere to be apparently represented by various forms of prostituted objects.

Oh and @ssd, Lewis Capaldi did date someone from Love Island. He dated Paige Turley before she went on it.

Do your research, love. It’s a bit embarrassing.

www.buzzfeed.com/natashajokic1/billie-eilish-vogue-abuse

Apologies for the Buzzfeed article, but I find the way Billie Elish speaks to be quite mature, insightful and certainly gives opportunity for young people to think about situations where they may be taken advantage of. I'm not sure how she can be deemed anything but a positive role model, especially for girls (and especially the ones who think that having a much older boyfriend as a teen is perfectly acceptable).

But it was her idea?

What, just like Britney Spears dressing up as a schoolgirl for the 'Baby one more time' video was all Britney's idea?

@ViciousJackdaw is the issue there not the fact that someone who is a size 20 would never be in the position that BE is in? Hmm, I wonder why that is, nothing to do with who the incredibly powerful and misogynistic music industry chooses to promote?

@Twoobles

A load of middle aged (as you described yourself as being) jealous cows on here hating on a 19 year old. I am so utterly embarrassed for you. Imagine being on this earth for that many years and having absolutely no grace or decorum. Who trailed you up?

You’re lucky SM wasn’t a thing in “your day”. You have no idea how lucky you are. Now, please, jog on. I’m sure there’s an 18 year old customer advisor in ASDA who needs you to give them a right bollocking today for not offering you a bag.

I stopped reading at, 'hating on'.

@Twoobles

A load of middle aged (as you described yourself as being) jealous cows on here hating on a 19 year old. I am so utterly embarrassed for you. Imagine being on this earth for that many years and having absolutely no grace or decorum. Who trailed you up?

You’re lucky SM wasn’t a thing in “your day”. You have no idea how lucky you are. Now, please, jog on. I’m sure there’s an 18 year old customer advisor in ASDA who needs you to give them a right bollocking today for not offering you a bag.

I can't work out if this post is tongue in cheek or not?!

Truth is, she looks awful. Awkward, trying to pull a sexy face.

Truth is, she looks awful. Awkward, trying to pull a sexy face.

No she doesnt,she looks fantastic.
Shes not naked,its a corset which covers most of her body.A swimsuit or bikini shows so much more.

A load of middle aged (as you described yourself as being) jealous cows on here hating on a 19 year old. I am so utterly embarrassed for you. Imagine being on this earth for that many years and having absolutely no grace or decorum. Who trailed you up?

You’re lucky SM wasn’t a thing in “your day”. You have no idea how lucky you are. Now, please, jog on. I’m sure there’s an 18 year old customer advisor in ASDA who needs you to give them a right bollocking today for not offering you a bag.

There's no hate towards BE going on here. Only in the responses from certain posters towards women with opinions who happen to differ from theirs.

Twoobles I see your response is full of grace and decorum too. If "jealous cows" and "Asda bags" are the level of your argument, then I will happily jog on as fast as my arthritic knees, rolls of fat and strings of pearls will allow.

Look at Sam Smith - appears to turn things on their head in his 'How do you sleep' video, with sexy dancing and writhing around in a way that blokes never do in music videos. I remember thinking at the time it was quite refreshing. Then a mere couple of months later he comes out as 'non-binary' and is claiming that he is not fully male and that some parts of him are 'girl'.

Because clearly, sexy dancing and writhing around is only for women and not something that men do, and that was the 'girly' side of Sam Smith in that video.

I don’t know BE, don’t follow current music or celebrities. I’m not bothered what she wears if she is content with her body and how much she shares with us.

I wanted to say I don’t think you get to choose whether or not you are a role model. If your music appeals to a certain group of children or you play football for a famous team you become a role model. It just happens. That shouldn’t stop a celebrity changing their style or behaviour (as long as it is legal). They may want to think about influencing fans but they certainly don’t have to.

For children It is up to parents to discuss if someone who is a role model changes what they do how it might affect the child/parent opinion.

Most people are a mixture of things I admire things I don’t like.

@PlanDeRaccordement

19 yr olds telling us not to body shame then appearing in vogue in a corset. But said 19 yr old being an expert in telling us how to feel,

I fail to see the hypocrisy here. Nothing wrong with a corset. In fact corsets are more comfortable than a modern bra and have just as much support. They also act as a back brace which was needed when housework was heavy physical labour....eg doing the laundry. I also think they are more modest than a lacy bra as well.

I also dont think Billie Ellish is telling anyone how to feel. She’s just talking about her feelings.

Pretty sure she's not wearing the corset for comfort or because because she's about to undertake some strenuous housework.

The 'go to' look for famous young women 'embracing their womanhood' (or, rather, the stylists who style said famous young women for high-profile photoshoots, controlled by the media who own the publications) is depressingly regular with the corsets and stockings. In complete and utter contrast to her public/performance persona to date, Eilish isn't doing anything new, original, unique or shocking here and neither are Vogue.

It's just the same old story of sticking a young woman in underwear on the front cover and acting like it's something fresh that pisses me off. It's a trope, a well-worn rite of passage for any young female in the public eye who's been conditioned to think flashing the flash equals 'stepping into womanhood'. It's not really any different to The Daily Sport and their horrendous habit of counting down the days to when they were able to feature a newly-legal sixteen year old girl topless in their vile publication - just because, in this case, it's Vogue doesn't make it any more palatable, in my view.

I don't blame Eilish - it's the world she's been raised in and she's surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of other young women doing exactly the same. It's the biggest media lie of all that tells young women to be sexy, interesting, relevant and even worthy of consideration within the big, shiny arena of fame, you have to take some clothes off.

@Blondiney

Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to inform me of that. Life changing stuff. I’ll never forget it.

It’s as if the entire feminist movement, or the entire punk movement in music never happened, isn’t it.