To think if 5000 people can cram in to a festival, my kid can go to his classmates house after school?

[ItsNotComplicated]

I have followed ALL the rules throughout for the last year.

I was surprised to see that a 5000 person sell out festival has taken place in a big top tent with no distancing. (I’m not complaining).

For a year, I’ve not allowed my DC inside with their friends. DC3 has been invited to a friends house for lunch tomorrow. I had my reservations but now , I’m thinking this is so far beyond nonsense if this festival has gone ahead!

DC3 is in the same class as his friend. WIBU to let him go?

@Febo24 the rave is not the only mass gathering or pilot . There was also the football match and the snooker tournament. So mass gatherings are going ahead. Pilot or not, it is still a mass gathering.

There is no requirement to quarantine and it is not compulsory to test after the even; therefore allowing the potential spread of covid outside of the pilot. I do not disagree with them going ahead, I am simply debating how this risk is far higher and with further outreaching consequences than a child on a play date with another child in the same bubble .

@HugeAckmansWife

But I don't think kids having play dates at this point does adversely affect anyone else. Not now.

That’s interesting. I’m not an epidemiologist, but I try to apply logic. There are still a steady number of new cases each day, and the R rate is 0.8 - 1.1. So people ARE infected and ARE passing it on to other people.

The majority of people with children of an age to be going on play dates must be below the current vaccination age, so are likely in many cases to be unvaccinated, and therefore if they do contract covid, are able to pass it on, symptomatically or asymptomatically.

Those parents therefore have the potential to pass it to friends, family, colleagues in the workplace. Those people haven’t decided to go on a play date, so their autonomy has been eroded, as has that of all the people with whom they come into contact.

Now, it may be the case that the actual numbers of people infected this way will be low. But the potential for harm to other people is still there.

OP the problem with coming on here and asking AIBU about breaking (unenforceable) rules, is that you're going to get the full spectrum of opinion - some of it aggressively. Do what you feel is right for you and your DS. And for what it's worth I would let him go.

@HugeAckmansWife

“ But I don't think kids having play dates at this point does adversely affect anyone else. Not now.”.

I 100% agree with this. It is perfectly legal for little Billy to go to school in his bubble , then go to indoor football after school with a random set of kids from other schools , then stop off at a trampoline park on the way home with more random kids....to then go back to school the next day.

But it’s not ok for little Billy to go to his class mates house for tea after school. The risk is far far less to anyone else in this situation. It is nonsense to say otherwise!

@MumofPsuedoAdult thank you I am beginning to wonder why I bothered posting

It really was a knee jerk thought wondering how this makes any sense, even with the fact it’s an experiment.

My DS is going to his friend's later. They are in the same class anyway, let him go x

@MrsTulipTattsyrup but wouldn’t the same apply by someone allowing their child to go to say an indoor sport or a trampoline park?

Those are non essential but perfectly legal. The autonomy of the parents work colleagues etc has still been removed by the child mixing in a perfectly acceptable , but non essential way.

Oh course your dc should go. My ds has been mixing with friends as pretty much normal. They're in school together, myself, ds and his friends are testing twice weekly and most of our family are now vaccinated. What more can we do while letting out children and young people have their lives back.

[quote ItsNotComplicated]@MrsTulipTattsyrup but wouldn’t the same apply by someone allowing their child to go to say an indoor sport or a trampoline park?

Those are non essential but perfectly legal. The autonomy of the parents work colleagues etc has still been removed by the child mixing in a perfectly acceptable , but non essential way.[/quote]
Yes, it would. I am not saying one thing or the other is right or wrong. It’s just that people seem to have decided now that the rules are in place to inconvenience them, and have lost sight of the fact that they were put in place for public health reasons.

You have obviously made the decision and are now just looking for people to back up that decision.
I'd say please stick to what the scientists are currently asking us to do which is to meet outside only.
Hopefully if rates stay low and these experiments look positive then we only another couple of weeks to wait anyway.

@MrsTulipTattsyrup they absolutely were put in place for public health and it was the right thing to do, at that time.

My experience is, people are questioning why when people are now legally allowed to mix for activities indoors where children will have close contact, why one activity is allowed and not the other when the risks are either the same or much less.

Realistically, little Billy at his friends house is no more of a risk to the families as he would be at an indoor sports class. In fact, the former is likely to be less so. Whether it is right or wrong, it makes no logical sense .

@BiggerBoat1 did you see what my decision was? I’m not looking for backup as I have stated in my previous pp that I had not decided either way.

As it happens, DS decided himself (because he knew I had reservations) that he was going to go to his friend’s garden for a breakfast picnic before the rain starts.

tulip the op has explained it perfectly. The children on playdates are in the same classes, sports clubs etc. They are already mixing and SD does not happen in those settings. It just doesn't. The increased risk NOW of a playdate is so infinitesimal its irrelevant and will not be more so in 2 weeks. We either accept that we have an additional v small risk factor in our daily lives and get on with it, or we surrender to a pathological and irrational fear and do untold damage forever.. Since its not going to go away completely I'm assuming we'll do the former option and 2 weeks will make no difference.

Parent and child groups are also allowed indoors with up to 15 people and children under 5 are not counted.

The idea that 8year old Billy can go to school and to indoor football class but not go to his friends house , but 4years and 11months old Johnny can go to school and then go to a parent group with mum in tow after , is completely illogical. I follow the rules but is it any wonder that people are now at peak tolerance when there are such rules in place?

@Porcupineintherough

Yes totally unreasonable. The festival is part of a research experiment into the safety of large gatherings (and how to run them safely). Your son's social life is not.

It would be really nice if we could not piss away all the sacrifices made for the sake of a few more weeks.

This

The rave / concert are a red herring. These children are mixing indoors every day at school.

I don’t actually think it’s a problem for children to be safely and cautiously mix indoors for social reasons. It’s totally understandable in many cases and definitely in yours, OP. Comparing it to the pilot mass events is ridiculous though. People are still legally not allowed to have/attend mass events, much like we are not currently legally permitted to mix indoors (except for certain reasons). I think it’s great they are checking out to ensure these events are safe so life can have some semblance of normality for everyone.

It's a controlled experiment, which really will benefit us all. I don't understand how people don't get this.

You want to let him go - do it. No need justify it. We’re no one to you.

@luckylavender I do get that it’s a controlled experiment but unless I’m mis-informed, it’s not a fail safe test without risks to other people on a mass scale.

In my view, it is ok to question how this mass event is ok but Billy seeing his friend after school is not.

If Billy took an LFT 24 hours before a play date, this would be the same as the 5000 people at the rave.

If the people at the rave were required to isolate afterwards and testing after the event was compulsory, then yes, there is no comparison.

If I’ve understood it correctly , these people who attended the rave are free to go about their daily business and mix with the general public .

I don’t disagree that this is a good thing but the same principle applies with Billy and his play date .... but Billy has a much less impact on the wider population. I do disagree that you can’t compare them because the event is not so strict and controlled as to set it apart from anything else .

You do you. I'm totally sure the rules don't apply in such special cases.

@3scape please can you elaborate on the special case you talk about?

@3scape I think I mis read your post. The rules are unlikely to apply in the pilot , but my point remains the same. The pilot has far more reaching implications on others than Billy going to the house of another child he is already mixing with.

Pilot or not, it just doesn’t sit right with me (and others I’ve spoken to about this agree). Children have lost out too during this pandemic.

The fact I disagree with it however, does not mean I intend to do what I like.

@ItsNotComplicated

it’s not a lazy argument ; it is human nature to question why masses of people are allowed to gather when others are not even allowed to meet one other person indoors. It is nonsensical.

You've claimed to fully understand the reasoning and the need for the pilot events and yet you're constantly comparing your wish to allow you son to break the rules with the scientific research being done at the pilot events, so clearly no, you don't understand.

Just do what you want. Don't dress it up with whataboutisms. If you want to let your son break the rules, just do it and stop comparing it to these special events.

So you don't think that trials and experiments should happen to test these environments BEFORE restrictions are eased? Arguably, the experiment would be even more fucked in two weeks time when everyone gets more freedom. From 21st June these events might be able to go ahead, wouldn't it be better to get ahead on our understanding of how it might work, now?

Apparently around 10% didn't gain access to the event due to their test results that were mandatory on entry. On that basis, there was limited risk to them mixing and then leaving the event. They were also watching how people mixed, as the want to understand how a year of limited contact effects how people behave.

The rules are in place, banking on a certain proportion not sticking to them. If they say there are no rules, it's a free for all then we take a massive risk on a rise in cases. Keep these rules in place means that while some people make decisions based on their own situation and opinions, others stick to the rules and help keep things ticking along. On balance, that they mix at school is probably enough risk right now, without the green light to mix away from school, where there are probably less measures.

This event wasn't dreamt up on the back of a fag packet.