To think if 5000 people can cram in to a festival, my kid can go to his classmates house after school?

[ItsNotComplicated]

I have followed ALL the rules throughout for the last year.

I was surprised to see that a 5000 person sell out festival has taken place in a big top tent with no distancing. (I’m not complaining).

For a year, I’ve not allowed my DC inside with their friends. DC3 has been invited to a friends house for lunch tomorrow. I had my reservations but now , I’m thinking this is so far beyond nonsense if this festival has gone ahead!

DC3 is in the same class as his friend. WIBU to let him go?

It's a research event. They are being tested for days afterwards and if there's an outbreak they have to self isolate

I wonder how controlled the experiment is? Are the participants strictly monitored to ensure this is the ONLY mixing they do? Are they allowed to carry on and meet people at the pub, go to the gym etc? If someone from amongst them tests positive for covid will they be able to prove that they picked up the infection from this rave, from the gym, from work colleagues, some random person on the bus?
If someone knows I'd really appreciate it if they could let us know.
I'm off to Google, hopefully I'll come back with some helpful facts

@ThroughThickAndThin01 it’s not a lazy argument ; it is human nature to question why masses of people are allowed to gather when others are not even allowed to meet one other person indoors. It is nonsensical. Experiment or not. I am clearly not the only person to query this based on other threads.

However, whether I agree or not, it does not mean I intend to do what I like. I thought AIBU was about debate?

Seems more like it’s a pile on when people don’t agree to be honest . Whatever happened to constructive debate? Look at the replies ..is there any need to be so nasty? “So dumb it hurts” . “You’re not special” and so on.

For those interested, DS has awoken with plans to meet his friend for a picnic breakfast in his friend’s garden before it rains. This is allowed.

I will continue to follow the rules but I will also continue to question things that don’t make sense , because I’m human.

@BonnieDundee

It is ridiculous OP, let him go. Will probably do him the world of good

Exactly my thoughts. I have a DC on the spectrum and it has been bloody hard! Mental health in children has deteriorated massively, so if it sparks a bit of joy for just a few hours I wouldn't hesitate for a moment.

Maybe suggest a garden meet up for him, that way the worriers on here will see it is legal as you're all outside, and he has social time with his buddy outside of school?

I understand your frustration but also feel we all need to hang on just a little bit longer. Many school parents are still to be vaccinated and mixing in houses risks spread between people who wouldn’t usually have contact e.g. your son and his friend’s mum. Try and see it that the festivals etc held this weekend are research to see how best to do things like this in the future and the lower community transmission remains as a result of us all following the rules for a little bit longer hopefully the sooner we can get back to normal.

[quote ItsNotComplicated]@ThroughThickAndThin01 it’s not a lazy argument ; it is human nature to question why masses of people are allowed to gather when others are not even allowed to meet one other person indoors. It is nonsensical. Experiment or not. I am clearly not the only person to query this based on other threads.

However, whether I agree or not, it does not mean I intend to do what I like. I thought AIBU was about debate?

Seems more like it’s a pile on when people don’t agree to be honest . Whatever happened to constructive debate? Look at the replies ..is there any need to be so nasty? “So dumb it hurts” . “You’re not special” and so on.

For those interested, DS has awoken with plans to meet his friend for a picnic breakfast in his friend’s garden before it rains. This is allowed.

I will continue to follow the rules but I will also continue to question things that don’t make sense , because I’m human.[/quote]
Just seen your update. Unfortunately that is mumsnet for you, all sorts of judgemental comments that range from insensitive to bloody rude!

Hope your son enjoys his picnic breakfast :)

DS1's classmate is the only person who's been in our house in the past year. DS1's welfare is more important to me than arbiary rules. DS2's needs have been met more easily within the rules. DS1 has ASD (does not wear trousers so has to be careful about prolonged sitting around in the cold), and dyspraxia (so not motivated by physical play out). His birthday fell at the end of the autumn term. His friend had been sitting in the same room for 6 hours a day at school, neither party had any plans for Christmas to meet others, and to have the friend over and avoid ruining a birthday that fell in the same week as the non-event of un-Christmas was worth it. We left them to it for a couple of hours in DS's room and aired before and after. All other family socialising has been done outside.

The government said "data not dates" when they set out the plan for easing lockdown. The success of the vaccine programme means that the data is better than anticipated. Two weeks until it's "allowed" is neither here nor there, no magical anti-Covid event will occur between 16th- 17th May. The only significance about 17th May is that it falls 5 weeks after 12th April and allows time to evaluate changes occuring after opening hospitality/ retail/ sport. At an individual level of risk it has no significance other than social approval.

It's been a very long, very shit year and wellbeing has to come first.

I may have missed it but how old is ds? If he is in secondary he will have been doing lft at school so I would let him. Altho on the flip side, if he's young they don't distance at school so I'd let him anyway.
I had a drink Inside a friend's house this weekend when the heavens opened while we were in the garden.
We work together, in a class with 29 kids and 1 other adult. Both had our first jab. We share laptops, key boards, pens, kitchen and toilet facilities with no access to cleaning supplies to sanitize items as schools can't afford extra so it's wash hands but not items.
We are doing lft 2 times a week. I have no guilt at all about it. If my health was OK to be compromised for the last year then I will sit on her sofa now. I won't see other friends, family etc, but considering I spend 8 hrs a day with her I don't think there was any additional risk.

For those interested, DS has awoken with plans to meet his friend for a picnic breakfast in his friend’s garden before it rains. This is allowed.
I hope he has a lovely time.

Just follow the flipping rules. You're not special.

My DD had a little birthday party in the garden with 4 friends. They were mostly outside but did come inside for a little bit. They’ve all missed so much over the year and they’re all together at school so I was pragmatic about it. My friend did the same and did say that they would be going inside if it rained. We haven’t mixed inside at all so it’s not like I’ve glibly broken the rules like some people I know. So I would have let him go too... hope he has a great time

Yes, it can be a pile on and be a bit rude, but I do think this is a bit of an odd one. You can't compare a mass experiment with your son going to his pals. If you need justification then try a different angle? And perhaps read up on the event and how it's being managed before you get outraged.

@paralysedbyinertia you’ve just proven my point above about the lack of civilised debate on here.

RTFT and you will see I HAVE been and I AM following the rules. As I’ve repeatedly stated, I also don’t believe I’m special. HTH.

Could you get the lateral flow tests for both children ? They are easily available in my area and I think nationwide

I’ve let dd hang out with friends who she goes to school with. They are in the same classes all day long. So what’s the harm in going to town on a weekend and getting lunch or a coffee.
They are all 14/15 and tested twice a week for Covid. If she wanted one of them to come here for dinner or a birthday I wouldn’t hesitate to let them.

@HugeAckmansWife

I'm a teacher. I'm usually a big fan of following the rules and frequently tell the teenagers in my classes that part of being an adult is accepting that you can't always just do what you like. BUT I also teach them there is value in questioning and not just complying with things that make no practical or reasonable sense. Too many historical examples to cite but things generally improve when reasonable people respectfully and peacefully choose non compliance with a poor set of rules.

I think that’s fine when your actions affect only yourself, i.e. you are making decisions not to follow rules which don’t impinge on anyone else’s safety. In this instance though, decisions taken not to comply with rules with which you don’t agree have the potential to cause significant harm to other people without those people having any say in the matter. That’s what makes this different from many other situations.

It's a test event. We're not quite out of the woods yet. Just need to get more people vaccinated, checked the vaccines work and there are no nasty mutations.

@ItsNotComplicated

You said it does not make sense ..... and that would be true if it was some random rave that was allowed .

But it’s not .

It is a controlled measured experiment on a group of people who are at lowest risk . Not only about testing but I believe ventilation etc.

You of courses can make your own judgement about what is right for you but don’t use the rave as an excuse .

The people saying wait two weeks. For what, still there will be people who won't have been vaccinated, and the virus will still be here. It's not going to be declared safe on a set date, it will be allowed on a set date. We're bubbled with our kids classmates and their family whether we see them or not, so have been enjoying meet ups indoors the past few weeks.

@MrsTulipTattsyrup I agree with your sentiment ... this is why I’m surprised by the fact that 5000 people are allowed to meet up for a festival when the far reaching risk is so much higher , but people can not meet one other person indoors.

The testing AFTER the event is not compulsory. How many of those people who could potentially be brewing covid, but not yet picked up on LFT , will then go on to the supermarket, shops and other social gatherings. The people around them have no say in the matter and are put at risk.

In contrast, a child who is in a school class with another child, is already an indirect risk to the other children and their families. Personally, I think there is very minimal increased risk of two children socialising in a house after they’ve spent all day in school together. The parents of the children have already been in the “indirect” line of potential transmission.

Whereas a mass gathering with thousands of people who may or may not comply with non compulsory follow up , is a far greater risk with far reaching consequences.

I have no issue with the festival going ahead per se, but on a personal level , it seems nonsensical to not allow my child to engage in much lower level activity*.

Another pp has also made a good point about data not dates. The current data is allowing this festival to go ahead. Realistically, is 13 days going to have a massive impact on numbers if people take calculated risks in low level risk activities? I don’t think many people are following the rules now . The VE Day celebrations and the masses of people on the beaches did not result in a mass spike in cases when numbers were low to begin with.

It just feels so farcical that DC who are really now struggling with the lockdown, are vilified for “breaking rules” in such a low risk situation when mass gatherings are going ahead.

*This is for the purpose of debate; as I’ve repeatedly said upthread, I am following all rules.

tulipwith respect that's utter nonsense. Martin Luther King was wealthy.. Didn't need to take the bus. Should he have not organised the bus boycotts because it didn't affect him? If I allow my dd to have a playdate (which I did) well before I was vaccinated I was putting myself 'at risk' but my point is that the 'risk' to anyone now is vanishingly small. That's the salient point. Life is not and never will be risk free. This is just one to add to the list and increasingly, its negligible of either catching it or being seriously ill. I teach my students that responsibility lies in sensible and informed risk assessment. Having said that, in school, in my professional capacity I enforce the policies. But at home, I exercise autonomy. I'm not forcing anyone to do likewise.

Mass gathering aren't going ahead. ITS A PILOT EVENT. You seem to be deliberately over simplifying to make your point.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/02/we-are-ecstatic-a-taste-of-post-covid-freedom-at-liverpool-pilot-gig?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

@HugeAckmansWife

tulipwith respect that's utter nonsense. Martin Luther King was wealthy.. Didn't need to take the bus. Should he have not organised the bus boycotts because it didn't affect him? If I allow my dd to have a playdate (which I did) well before I was vaccinated I was putting myself 'at risk' but my point is that the 'risk' to anyone now is vanishingly small. That's the salient point. Life is not and never will be risk free. This is just one to add to the list and increasingly, its negligible of either catching it or being seriously ill. I teach my students that responsibility lies in sensible and informed risk assessment. Having said that, in school, in my professional capacity I enforce the policies. But at home, I exercise autonomy. I'm not forcing anyone to do likewise.

I’m not sure how your first point is meant to negate mine. I am advocating making decisions which take into account other people, just as Dr King did.

If the broad point - that acting in ways which affect adversely other people’s wellbeing is unfair on people for whom you are effectively making their decisions for them - is one with which you don’t agree, that’s fine. Not everyone agrees on everything.

But I don't think kids having play dates at this point does adversely affect anyone else. Not now.

Theres no fucking snow now.

It snowed during my birthday picnic on Saturday!

Imo if taking a test means it's possible to attend mass events then taking a test should allow household meeting too, but so much of the decisions around corona restrictions are based on economics and not risk.