To be concerned about primary teachers not having basic maths skills?

[ThreeTimesThree]

My year 3’s DS teachers are repeatedly making mistakes, and I’m wondering if I need to raise this officially with the school.

His usual class teacher (who is now on leave) was unable to read a scale over 100cm. (This was during home schooling and I happened to be with him at the time) So when the scale went to 100cm and 3cm, she said “130cm and 3cm”. And for the next example made a similar mistake. My son said this was not right and what the answer should be. To which she apologised, and just skipped the rest of these similar questions.

Another teacher he’s had since April was unable to do fractions; so saying 3/4 of 120 is 30, 5/6 of 180 is 30, 2/3 of 90 is 30. My DS pointed out these were incorrect and told her what the answers should be. So at first she insisted her working were right But DS insisted it was not right and explained his working out,she double checked and said yes and made the class rub their work out and rewrite it down. She’s now off isolating so DS currently has a supply teacher.

Supply teacher “teaching” fractions last week. And saying 1/2 x2 = 2/4, 1/5 x 5 = 5/25, 2/4 x 2 = 4/8. She was trying to teach equivalent fractions. DS told the teacher those were incorrect, and she was just rewriting the same fraction but using different numbers.

But the teacher insisted she was right. My son said 1/2 x 2 is the same as 1/2 + 1/2 which equals 1. But she replied, “we are not doing addition, we are doing multiplication.” And told DS he was confused. DS has amazing maths skills and came home that day very upset as the teacher was teaching them incorrect maths.

I had a word with the teacher the following morning to say DS was upset and if she could tell me what she had taught. And sure enough she said she was teaching the children 1/2 x 2 = 2/4, 1/5 x 5 = 5/25. I politely pointed out these didn’t look right, and if she could review what she was teaching them. But the next day she did the same mistakes again, as my DS informed me.

Just wondering if I should raise this with the head? Surely teachers need to have better maths skills than this?

I would raise this with HOD definitely.

I think you only need a C in maths (in old money). But this is primary school maths and with the support of answer books and the internet, no excuse to get these wrong. This teacher shouldn’t be in a classroom if she can’t handle basic fractions or even be bothered to check that she might be wrong. Absolutely speak to the headteacher.

Definitely talk to the head, she's teaching them incorrectly, poor kids.

We had the same thing with my DS at junior school, but he was too shy to speak up.

It's not just primary schools either as DS says it still happens occasionally in his secondary school now.

Blimey that’s not just a once off error, I’d raise it

All teachers have to pass QTS tests in numeracy and literacy regardless of the subject they teach. Yes I think I would raise it

This is in primary school, Year 3

That’s what I was thinking. They’re not errors like a spelling or grammar mistake, or calling a parallelogram a trapezium etc.
These are continuous errors which indicate a lack of basic maths skills.
I find it very concerning that the supply teacher was unable to recognise her mistake after DS pointed it out using several explanations why they were incorrect. He even asked if she could check using a calculator and she refused, saying she was right.

The actual class teacher - yes I would raise it. If you don’t want any issues you could just email the teacher first before going to the head.

The supply teacher - no I wouldn’t report. Many supply teachers have a specialism is a specific area so if they’re a qualified history teacher chances are they’ve not done maths for many years. As the normal class teacher is off it sounds like they had to get a last minute supply teacher and I doubt they’ll do much if you complain as it would mean finding another teacher to replace them.

Oh dear, my maths skills are not spectacular but they're pretty glaring mistakes.

The supply teacher won't necessarily be primary trained, they could even just be a cover supervisor. Some regions seem to have some pretty dire teacher shortages unfortunately so that could impact the quality of who they can get to cover.

Skills tests are gone for teaching, you just need GCSE grade c, the training provider expect you to fill knowledge gaps throughout the training year, secondary might have SKE courses but generally not for primary unless you want to be a maths specialist.

He even asked if she could check using a calculator and she refused, saying she was right.
I hate that. If he thinks that she is right she should prove it, he shouldn't arrogantly insist that he must be right, just because she is the teacher. It's one thing to make a mistake or struggle in a particular area but it's another to refuse to correct those mistakes.

Your son is quite right of course. When multiplying fractions one should (assuming that they share the same denominator, otherwise convert) multiply only the numerators together.

Raise it as soon as you can . The teacher clearly can’t understand basic fractions, and shouldn’t be teaching them until she’s Mastered them herself.

@Whatelsecouldibecalled

All teachers have to pass QTS tests in numeracy and literacy regardless of the subject they teach. Yes I think I would raise it

They don't anymore, the test was abolished a couple of years ago, now maths and English skills are supposed to be assessed as part of teacher training but not formally tested.

An actual test of maths and English skills was seen by some as a barrier to teacher training. Given the tests were pitched at GCSE grade C level, personally I think it was a good barrier to have as all teachers should have at least that level of maths and English skills.

@DdraigGoch, I think you mean adding/add rather than multiplying/multiply?

When adding fractions:
Get a common denominator
Add (only) the numerators

surely you don't have to be a maths specialist to know that those fractions are wrong.
anyone having a general education should know that one quarter of something cannot be the same as three quarters of it.
that's basic logic i would have thought.
and it is concerning, as many pupils will get totally muddled by this.

This is why I became a high school English teacher. Maths is a foreign language to me and even if I learn it one day I forfeit it the next. We're asking primary teachers to be competent to expert in all subjects but the reality is, some serious googling gets done at the start of a scheme of work and teachers are going to have their weak points. It drives me potty that two primary teacher friends of mine get basic grammar incorrect. I've also seen apostrophes out of place in the staff room of a private high school.
What I'm saying is, no teacher is great at everything. Be glad if they're great at something. If you're better, make up the shortfall at home.

PS. GPs do a ton of googling too. I once got told to come back next week after he'd had a chance to look it up online.

Forfeit? Forget. Cheers phone.

I would report. This will cause the entire class to be confused and struggling. It’s a repeat mistake not a one off. Tbh I find it shocking that any graduate would have such poor maths knowledge, let alone a teacher.

@ThreeTimesThree

I don’t disagree that some primary teachers may not have basic arithmetic skills. However:

“Supply teacher “teaching” fractions last week. And saying 1/2 x2 = 2/4, 1/5 x 5 = 5/25, 2/4 x 2 = 4/8. She was trying to teach equivalent fractions. DS told the teacher those were incorrect, and she was just rewriting the same fraction but using different numbers.”

Equivalent fractions are the same fraction, in that they represent the same part of a whole, so the aim is to write the same fraction using different numbers.

So, when the supply teacher writes 1/2 x 2 she should be writing 1/2 x 2/2 (ie multiply both top and bottom by 2) , giving 1/2 = 2/4. 1/5 x 5/5 = 5/25, and so on.
The examples would be clearer if they didn’t all use the denominator as the multiplier, for example 1/2 = 3/6 (x by 3/3, which is equivalent to x 1/1 or 1).

This would look much clearer if I could use proper formatting and write fractions as

one number
——————
over another number

rather than having to use /.

What I'm saying is, no teacher is great at everything. Be glad if they're great at something. If you're better, make up the shortfall at home.
Sorry but this is ridiculous. A teacher needs to be capable in the subjects they’re paid to teach. We can’t have teachers making basic mistakes when the topic is so simple that primary school kids are capable of getting it right.

When you spoke to her yourself, didnt you dumb it right down and make it really clear why she was wrong? I wouldn't have been able to just walk away from that conversation.

Absolutely raise it with the school. I would send an email outlining what they have been teaching (and reiterate that you check with the teacher so know your son isnt making it up) and ask them to please let you know how they are going to handle re-reaching the class and what they will do going forward. Give them a couple days to reply, then phone if they dont.

For example
5
25

not 5/25

Having read your post more thoroughly op (sorry, so late at night) I'd say the class teacher panicked and stopped teaching until she could have another look, the other teacher sensibly admitted the mistake and the sub teacher is just too scared to admit they're wrong. Hopefully the normal teacher will correct the mistake when they're back. It's unfortunate that it's all in the same subject.

It's hard to do but it looks much better if you can accept, as a teacher, that your students can teach you things sometimes, (without feeling like or giving the impression that your authority is undermined) .

This is shocking! I would absolutely raise it. Enough children struggle with maths without being taught things that are plain wrong. These are very important concepts.