Have I turned into that dog owner...child...”bite”

[Puppalicious]

I always thought it shocking the way some dog owners excused/minimised bites on children, or tried to . In my eyes dogs are way below children in the priority list, but an incident happened yesterday evening and I wondered am I now doing the minimising?
I was at my eldest’s football training yesterday, for most of the session I was at the far reaches of the (small) park as was managing two youngest and my 15 week old puppy. When, close to the end, my DH came we moved closer to the touchline to watch eldest as he could grab the two younger if need be while I managed the puppy who was getting overtired and a bit jumpy and mouthy at this stage. I had her on a tight leash to stop her jumping at my toddler.
Then a girl came flying over and grabbed the puppy in a bear hug around the neck, I gently indicated to her to let go and heard her mother about to her to ask first, then her brother barrelled in and puppy jumped up him in excitement with her mouth open (she adores children). Her tooth must have caught him because he shouted (although not looking v upset) “ah she bit me!”, at which his mum shouted “well that will teach you!” In the moment I was so horrified at how quickly/easily my puppy had been accused of a child bite that I didn’t think to yell over an apology or check on the child at all. I was more worried about my puppy being accused of a child bite. WIBU to be more horrified that my puppy was accused by a child of biting when I didn’t think she bit really at all, than worried about the child? Have I turned into a minimising dog owner? And what’s the etiquette, should I have been full of profuse apologies?

Most people know that puppies mouth people when excited. This wasn't a bite, it was a puppy jumping up when unexpectedly grabbed by unknown children. Frankly even if she had bitten then it wouldn't have been her fault. The mother needs to teach her children to act appropriately around animals.

It sounds like a young mouthy puppy jumpy up and a child running in.

Children should ALWAYS ask before approaching a dog and you need to safeguard your pup from stress or injury by stopping children from approaching her unless it's ok.

The more negative experiences she has with children the more she'll learn to dislike them

Your puppy didn't do anything wrong, those kids were massively in the wrong. You need to be stronger about protecting your dog though. You've seen what can happen, do not let it happen again. You're lucky because she told her kid it was their fault and your dog is a puppy.

You didn't need to appologise, you needed to tell the kids not to grab at dogs and move your dog away from the situation.

There is a huge difference between biting out of aggression or fear etc and a young puppy mouthing. They do it and the mother is right, it will teach her kids (and her too hopefully - far too many parents think they can freely let their kids hug my dog because he’s a typically friendly breed 🙄)

Don’t worry.

I think bites get minimised on here (see other thread about Rottweiler biting a six year old and I think half the posters would rehome the child over the dog) but I agree with you, that’s not a bite.

What I would say though is don’t be afraid to be firm with children, in a nice way of course.

@Stormwhale

Most people know that puppies mouth people when excited. This wasn't a bite, it was a puppy jumping up when unexpectedly grabbed by unknown children. Frankly even if she had bitten then it wouldn't have been her fault. The mother needs to teach her children to act appropriately around animals.

Its only a 'mothers' job to teach this? Interesting response given that the mother appeared to act appropriately, according to the op.

Ok, that’s good to know. I have been a bit shocked at how many children will come running up to her and grab, pet, try to put their face in hers, and I’ve maybe been a bit slow to react. In fact yesterday was probably the firmest I had been with the girl who had her in a bear hug. I’ll be a lot lot firmer now that I know how quickly it could lead to an allegation of a dog bite!
I deliberately posted this in AIBU to get the opinions of those who are less familiar with dogs and don’t know puppies will mouth, I don’t know if everyone knows that?

There's a huge difference between the intention of a mouthy puppy bite and an adult dog bite, puppies bite until they're trained not to or grow out of it.

Sadly too many are rehomed by clueless owners because of it, we once took on a 5 month old german shepherd who had been returned to the breeder because she'd nipped their child's leg when they were running and chewed their crayons.
She was the happiest, friendliest most loving dog we have ever had.

Your puppies bucket was full, you ignored it being overtired and highly aroused. It wasn’t really fair to put a 15 week old in that position tbh. At this stage you want to teach your puppy calm, to be well rested and not jumped over by hyper kids. This can cause a long lasting effect on puppies - as it is it can cause them stress for a few days afterwards if the children hurt or frightened him. Puppies need 18/20 hours of rest a day I notice my boy and he’s 8 months getting naughty and doing behaviours he doesn’t usually if he’s not had a sleep in the morning.

I would’ve been firm with the kids and taken the pup away. But I’d be mindful to avoid situations like that, is he small enough to pick up? My boy is huge so not a hope I could’ve but I would’ve walked away. Minimise these sort of interactions for your dogs safety and the kids as obs mouthing puppies have v sharp teeth - land sharks, so you want to minimise the opportunity to practise these behaviours.

@Puppalicious

Ok, that’s good to know. I have been a bit shocked at how many children will come running up to her and grab, pet, try to put their face in hers, and I’ve maybe been a bit slow to react. In fact yesterday was probably the firmest I had been with the girl who had her in a bear hug. I’ll be a lot lot firmer now that I know how quickly it could lead to an allegation of a dog bite! I deliberately posted this in AIBU to get the opinions of those who are less familiar with dogs and don’t know puppies will mouth, I don’t know if everyone knows that?

It's a nightmare and it teaches your dog the wrong way to socialise with people. It's really important to stop it.

We had a kid pick up our puppy, she didn't like being picked up by anyone, never mind random strangers!

Is it bad that I'm really pleased by the mother's response?! 😂. I have 2 dogs and have ALWAYS taught my son you ALWAYS ask the owner before you approach a dog. It's a puppy though so it would have just been a mouthy bite rather than an actual bite, but as a PP said it sounds like it was too much stimulation for the puppy.

I don't think it's just the mother's job to teach children it's not ok to just approach and touch a dog. My previous dog was very good looking, often kids thought she was a wolf (she looked nothing like one) and wanted to touch. We rehomed her from a place where the kids had not been told how to treat her and consequently she was scared of them and just wanted to avoid them, would try and move away and give body signals telling them not to approach. If we spotted any kids we'd put her on lead and move to one side but some kids still approached however once asked not to come closer they generally didn't. There was one little terror who didn't, we had to physically put ourselves in between them for him to finally get the message. Not all dogs are friendly towards children, it's an important thing to teach children to keep them safe, had she been grabbed like your dog I'm not certain what she'd do.

I don't think you're minimising (there was no bite and they invaded his space without warning) this at all but I think you need cleaner boundaries with your dog and other people/children to keep your dog safe. I might be projecting a bit here but I was terrified I'd warn someone who would still approach and she'd nip them and we'd lose her.

You need to be assertive. Try not to hold the dog on too tight a lead (can lead to 'lead aggression'). If someone comes over, tel them not to touch your dog or get too close. Don't be afraid of upsetting them- it's for your dog's safety.

As PP also said, that's A LOT for a 15week old puppy to cope with.

Generally, I try to keep my puppy well rested, not least because I have my own small children who she’s usually v good with unless she’s over stimulated when she might start jumping with mouth open. My youngest has no fear or sense so I make sure to closely manage the puppy. My DH was late coming to meet us, so I was there longer than anticipated and as I said I was keeping my distance from everyone else (as we were asked to do anyway for covid reasons). I am definitely going to be more (nicely) assertive with children in her space in future!

The mother is the one who was with them, so yes in this instance it was her job. I dont agree that she acted appropriately at all. She should have stopped them before they got to the puppy. My youngest is obsessed with dogs and would do the exact same thing. Not once has he reached a dog without me intercepting. If the father was with the children my comment would have been about him. Good job looking for sexism that isn't there though.

That was to PrivateHall. The reply function isn't my friend today apparently.

I have an English Bull Terrier. As a puppy he was very hard mouthed, had few manners and was not in any way reliable as far as 'tasting' hands went. So I was always on my guard.. It can be terrifying!

Men come in, see the 'rough, aggressive' dog, and just lean in ruffle him, he grabs their hand in return and they shriek about being bitten. Best response ever was a woman with a walking frame who shouted back "You shouldn't put your hand in his mouth then!"

And the tiny little girl who came running up shrieking "Bunny doggy" grabbed his scruff with both and stuck her face in his neck still shrieking about fluffy bunny doggies! He was about 9 months old at the time and he just... sat down and endured it!

Mum was mortified, as was I. And we were both bloody grateful that my little land shark chose not to react!

So it was only a small child who said the dog bit her? Hardly an angry mob. The mother wasn’t concerned as she probably knows puppies are mouthy and no harm done and hopefully it was a lesson to you that you need to watch your environment more closely when you take him to places with young kids. It sounds like the child’s mum was watching her but kids are impulsive and these things happen in a split second. Right or wrong the onus is on the dog owner to prevent it, which for some dogs means not taking them to places where young kids are likely to be. Yours is a puppy so this doesn’t mean he will be a biter as an older dog but you will need to train him carefully and consistently. If the child had really been hurt it would be awful for everyone and hopefully you would have at least cared a bit about the child’s wellbeing and not just your puppy’s good name.

I insisted that my DS ask each and every time to pet a dog. He loved dogs. If he was told by the owner, for whatever reason we left it. I always ask as well.

You do not know what type of dog or mood the dog is in.

Your puppy was just excited

But your puppy was showing signs of being overtired and you ignored it, that environment is too much for a puppy of that age, the noise the kids, etc managing it in the house is so different. Over stimulation can cause fear in further if you don’t manage it at the time. Next time take her in short spells then pop in car you can lengthen it as she gets older and take her kibble and kneel down beside her and just feed her as the food distracts from the environment we just say nice to Alfie as it’s a marker for calm then we take him away.

Obs difficult when weather gets warmer to put in car but whilst it’s still cool it’s a good place to use as a safe quiet space. Also remove before mouthy time starts/use pen, crate or stair gate so they can’t practise the behaviour we have both and it means if they can’t mouth then the behaviour decreases. Ideal as you have a small person in the house. Then when your pup settles and is calm reward them calmly with kibble use marker and deliver kibble gently beside so they learn that by being calm they are rewarded. Worked wonders for our boy, and things I wish I’d known earlier on. Have you done a puppy class? The puppy life skills 1 will be really good - we did ours online due to covid but in person would be much better. Try not to take any of this in the wrong way as it’s a steep learning curve having puppies with kids and training - I have 4 children a & a pup having lost our boy last year. We all want the best for our puppies and it can be really overwhelming, you don’t want them or you put in a bad situation.

Just read your updates. When you use the phrase “allegation of a dog bite” what exactly are you referring to? My sons will both routinely tell me the other one smacked/shoved/kicked him but usually it just means he brushed against him or looked in his direction. Did any adult characterize what your dog did as biting or are you just looking for some drama?

She should have stopped them before they got to the puppy

Give over. The child ran to the dog as the mum yelled to her to ask first. Short of keeping children on leads or splitting the space-time continuum continuum, the mum did what she could and then told her child off for not listening.

I’m not a dog person, bordering on actually disliking some dogs, but if I was the mum in this case I wouldn’t blame your puppy. I’ll be teaching my kids not to encroach on the space of an animal, to ask if it’s friendly before stroking, and that if they run up to an unknown animal and grab it then it might lash out. YANBU

Don't "gently indicate" for children stay away from your dog. Be firm and move the dog if necessary (while it's still small). Don't wait until they're practically upon you - you can see what's going on. This reluctance to stop other people's children putting themselves in dangerous positions (and overwhelming dogs) is as ridiculous as parents who think someone telling someone else's child to stay away from their dog are in the wrong.

You should have taken the puppy away when it started getting tied, though.

I don't think the puppy did anything wrong - she's just a baby after all, but I do think you shouldn't have had her in that situation to begin with.

A noisy football training session, lots of balls, children, shouting, cheering etc. isn't a good environment for such a small puppy.

Socialisation is not just flooding your puppy with every experience possible, it's making sure they're only exposed to good things.

Next time, leave the puppy at home.