Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Have I turned into that dog owner...child...”bite”

95 replies

Puppalicious · 01/05/2021 08:11

I always thought it shocking the way some dog owners excused/minimised bites on children, or tried to . In my eyes dogs are way below children in the priority list, but an incident happened yesterday evening and I wondered am I now doing the minimising?
I was at my eldest’s football training yesterday, for most of the session I was at the far reaches of the (small) park as was managing two youngest and my 15 week old puppy. When, close to the end, my DH came we moved closer to the touchline to watch eldest as he could grab the two younger if need be while I managed the puppy who was getting overtired and a bit jumpy and mouthy at this stage. I had her on a tight leash to stop her jumping at my toddler.
Then a girl came flying over and grabbed the puppy in a bear hug around the neck, I gently indicated to her to let go and heard her mother about to her to ask first, then her brother barrelled in and puppy jumped up him in excitement with her mouth open (she adores children). Her tooth must have caught him because he shouted (although not looking v upset) “ah she bit me!”, at which his mum shouted “well that will teach you!” In the moment I was so horrified at how quickly/easily my puppy had been accused of a child bite that I didn’t think to yell over an apology or check on the child at all. I was more worried about my puppy being accused of a child bite. WIBU to be more horrified that my puppy was accused by a child of biting when I didn’t think she bit really at all, than worried about the child? Have I turned into a minimising dog owner? And what’s the etiquette, should I have been full of profuse apologies?

OP posts:
AbsolutelyPatsy · 01/05/2021 10:16

was any blood spilled?

ElphabaTWitch · 01/05/2021 10:24

I think in this case the mothers’ attitude says it all. The kids shouldn’t have barrelled in. No one was bitten. Dogs have mouths and paws. That’s it. No cuddles. Just licks and nips. I think you would have viewed it differently had the dog taken a huge stretch and bit down with force. Don’t worry.

RowanAlong · 01/05/2021 10:29

Also agree with 1Angelic, owners shouting ‘he’s just being friendly’ just doesn’t wash with people who don’t know dogs. I don’t care if he’s friendly, he’s still a strange animal jumping up at me and scaring my kids!

Branleuse · 01/05/2021 10:35

It wasnt a bite, it was mouthing by a puppy and the kid got caught. The child is lucky it wasnt worse as many dogs would have freaked out with children flinging themselves like that. You could end up with a reactive dog if that happens again and she learns to associate children with being pounced on and gets nervous.
I would leave the dog at home next time or certainly keep a much closer eye on how children behave with her, as its not fair on her to be on a short lead and that happen.

Ponoka7 · 01/05/2021 10:39

It wasn't a bite. But your puppy shouldn't be in situations that he's getting overtired and overwhelmed. This won't do anything for his training and behaviour, or health.

Floralnomad · 01/05/2021 10:41

It wasn’t a bite and aside from keeping children away from your dog everyone in this scenario acted appropriately, particularly the other mother who told her child that it ‘served him right’ .

Branleuse · 01/05/2021 10:41

@CarrieBlue

‘Mouthing’ - is that not biting with a softer name? I know nothing about dogs and I dislike the way they are taken everywhere theses days as if they are extra humans and I wouldn’t approach a dog, but I’d have no idea if I’d been bitten or ‘mouthed’ - what’s the difference?
No its not the same. Mouthing is a puppy behaviour to be discouraged, although some dogs do it as adults sometimes. They put their mouth on you but its in play and not aggressive or hard. A dog bite usually implies an aggressive or reactive action where the dog is trying to hurt you and is onbviously more serious. This could have been a real possibility if those kids go round doing that to dogs, but its not what happened here
murbblurb · 01/05/2021 10:43

Kid did something stupid and lesson learned, happily without harm. Kid needs to learn that you never ever approach strange dogs of any size. Because there are owners like the one on the rottweiler thread, plenty of people who think that dogs are more important than people and plenty of types who will have a go at you for saying otherwise.

DoubleTweenQueen · 01/05/2021 10:46

@Puppalicious You did nothing wrong. It was a puppy accident. They have very sharp teeth at that age. Easily done in excitement with young children handling her.
I will warn children approaching that she may not want to be touched as she is a bit nervous/wary, and to wait for her to go to them for gentle interaction. Not always easy with young exuberant children!
I had one little boy - about 3 or 4 - who just went in for a touch, and bless her she sat quietly and accepted it. He was remarkably gentle though! It could easily have been quite different but the mix is a bit unpredictable, no matter how you try to control a situation.

Scratchpostkitty · 01/05/2021 10:47

At 15 wks that is typical for a puppy, especially with exciting, overly full on children. I think no one was particularly at fault, but if anything the parent needs to teach her children not to do this.
I had a similar situation when my dog was a year old. He jumped up at a woman walking past and it was so unexpected, I didn't have time to react. There was no aggression behind it at all, but the woman claimed he had 'bit' her. There were no marks and I think he caught her with a tooth, if at all. I am now 110% on it when walking past people, even though the jumping at strangers seems to have stopped. You were lucky at least that the woman reacted reasonably and didn't blame you.

DoubleTweenQueen · 01/05/2021 10:49

That should read - I will warn children approaching my pup

sunflowersandbuttercups · 01/05/2021 10:50

@CarrieBlue

‘Mouthing’ - is that not biting with a softer name? I know nothing about dogs and I dislike the way they are taken everywhere theses days as if they are extra humans and I wouldn’t approach a dog, but I’d have no idea if I’d been bitten or ‘mouthed’ - what’s the difference?
Technically yes, BUT puppies have to be taught not to mouth and bite - they don't learn to have a soft mouth automatically.

A puppy that nips or bites isn't being aggressive - it's learning how to explore the world. When a pup is with its' littermates and bites too har, the other puppies will squeal and not play with them anymore, so the puppy learns to be gentle. But it's our job as owners to continue that training at home - it can take several months as many puppies continue to nip and mouth until they've finished teething.

And puppies have teeth like needles so yes, mouthing hurts and can make you bleed, but that doesn't mean it's an aggressive behaviour.

BUT saying all that, puppies shouldn't be put in a position where they're able to mouth and nip at total strangers. If that happens, you've lost control of your dog. Either the puppy is way too overstimulated (in which case you need to remove it from the situation ASAP) or you're not controlling it properly.

Mouthing/biting is normal for puppies but it's still not something that members' of the public should have to tolerate. As an owner, it's your job to protect your puppy and keep it safe - never ever trust anyone else to do it for you.

contrary13 · 01/05/2021 10:53

Your pup is at an age where they'll be teething, too, so will mouth more than usual - but having said that, although you say they "love children", you do run the risk of that changing if you continue to put them in stressful situations where strange children "mob" them all of the time. You were absolutely correct in trying to get the children to let go of her (which you already know), but maybe not forceful enough for fear of causing a scene?

My late Spaniel used to enjoy strolling with me to collect my then-primary school-aged child at the end of the day (he also went in the morning, but we had absolutely no problems with that stroll!), where we'd wait outside of the gates for him to be released. Other dogs and their owners did the same - there were maybe 4 or 5 of us with various breeds of dogs patiently waiting. I was absolutely horrified by the amount of toddlers/pre-school children who would launch themselves, face-first, at my dog and either bear-hug him or hang onto his ears. Every afternoon. It got to the point where I was telling their oblivious parents to wise up and educate their children, because if my dog bit them... it would be their fault as the child's parent, not mine - and certainly not his. The children all ignored the Labrador, the poodle-cross, the Staffy... because my Spaniel looked friendly, and cuddly (he was a bit overweight, in fairness) and sad.

Except my Spaniel had been brutally teased as a puppy by a group of young children who would bang on our fences to make him bark, or play "knock-down-ginger" on our front door. He adored my children, but wasn't so fond of other children. Yet I trusted him not to bite them. He'd look at me as if to say "can I just have a little nibble...?", but he tolerated it because he knew I would remove the toddler hanging off his ears, or death-gripping his neck - physically, if necessary. He trusted me to put his welfare and safety before that of a spoiled toddler with a parent more interested in their phone than in parenting them.

Why did I continue to stroll him up to the school if I knew this would happen? Because he enjoyed it. And I don't see, even years later, why well-behaved dog should be deprived of something they enjoy in their latter years, because of badly-trained children. Plus, I'm not afraid of making a scene if needs be to protect one of my own.

The children's mother in your case was acting appropriately. Her comment of "well, that'll teach you" suggests that this wasn't the first time her children have done this, and that she's trying to get them to stop. Puppies are, however, a lure - as are the friendlier looking breeds, I'm afraid, and unless you pick your puppy up and hold them (which isn't a feasible long-term plan), you're simply going to have to get more strident in your "please leave my dog alone!" responses. Any dog can and will nip or bite to protect themselves if they feel threatened. It doesn't matter what age the person they feel threatened by - it's a primal response. But if your pup feels safe with you, and grows to trust that you will step up to protect them as/when needs be... they'll take their lead from you.

If only children could be the same...

DenisetheMenace · 01/05/2021 10:56

Puppies bite until they’re trained, it’s what canines do with their litter mates in the wild in preparation for independence. Imagine most people understand that. The children’s mother gave the right response. People need to teach their children not to lunge at puppies (any dogs) uninvited.

Wouldn’t worry about it, just continue training so you have a well behaved adult.

DoubleTweenQueen · 01/05/2021 10:57

I let my pup mouth my hand as it taught her how much pressure she could exert without hurting. I could literally feel her jaw quivering slightly with my fingers in her mouth as she restrained herself. It helped her know what was appropriate - bite inhibition is it? - so she could then learn to play with the children more gently.

rwalker · 01/05/2021 10:57

Not your fault your not minimising anything . Nice to see the other mum applying common sense .

Longingforatikihut · 01/05/2021 11:00

Any child that cannot be trusted not to run into the open jaws of an animal should be on a lead. Your puppy was a victim here. I hope the little furry lass is ok.

mam0918 · 01/05/2021 11:00

A bite is a bite (serious event, an attack leaving an open wound requiring antibiotics and often stiches)

A nip is a nip (like a catch, may leave a mark or small bruse but doesnt break skin usually a warning from a calm dog or the result of over excited play or a young puppy)

An open mouth is neither (our dog did this all the time its just playing, we would play 'tag' but she obviously doesnt have hand so uses her mouth... she never hurt or 'bit down' on anyone although if you looked at it as a bystander it would look like she was biting and probably look 'scary' but its the same way they train dogs to 'act' for films)

Im guessing your dog didnt bite otherwise it would be a serious incident which others would have rushed into.

TheRealMrsMorningstar · 01/05/2021 11:02

The kids shouldn't have come barreling and crowding your dog. Yhe mother knew and sounds like she tried to tell them.

The only thing you are unreasonable for is not actually checking the kid was ok!

MargaretThursday · 01/05/2021 11:02

Generally on here, I find that people are keen to minimise what the dog has done.

However I don't get that from your OP. I don't think what you've said is minimising it at all, and you're a responsible owner. What you've described sounds like you did nothing wrong.

What I do hate is an owner calling out "don't worry, they're only friendly" and doing nothing else.
I have never known an owner shout "watch out, he's aggressive and may bite," even when that is clearly true. So saying "they're only friendly," does not reassure me one iota.

I'm terrified of dogs due to being attacked by one in a friend's house when I was a teen. And before the dog owners say anything, no, I wasn't doing anything. I stood up from the sofa. Dog was other side of the room, gave no warnings and just lunged for me. I'd been there heaps of times before with no problems.
But people often say how much I clearly love dogs, and appear confident with them. What I tend to do is stay still and hope the dog just goes past.

What I want to see with a dog off lead is that the owner is in control. So call your dog back, show me that your dog will do as you say. Don't just tell me its friendly, just loves people, while letting it bounce up to me. If it hasn't got good recall, put it on a lead, please, near other people.

BrownEyedGirl80 · 01/05/2021 11:03

Can't possibly comment until i see a puppy pic Grin

ittakes2 · 01/05/2021 11:03

I would not have taken a 15 week old puppy to a football match in a park. A whole pile of kids running and shouting would get it excited for a start. And just like you - parents bringing younger siblings so there are always going to be kids and adults wanting to see and pet the puppy.
It takes time for someone to throw their arms around a puppy. There is the need to crouch down for a start. You have accidentally let her get too close. You didn't do it deliberately - something to consider for the next time you are out with the puppy.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 01/05/2021 11:16

What you've described sounds like you did nothing wrong

I disagree that OP did nothing wrong.

The puppy should never have been in that position to start with. It was put into a situation not of it's choosing and showed signs of being stressed and unhappy. Instead of taking the puppy away (or leaving it at home to start with), OP chose to keep the puppy in that position.

The puppy should have been removed out of the way of the child, not kept in a position where the child was able to jump on it in the first place. Prevention is ALWAYS the way to go with dogs.

CarrieBlue · 01/05/2021 11:16

So if you reckon there’s no aggression it isn’t a bite, it’s ‘mouthing’ despite there being an injury/broken skin/pain? That sums up everything I dislike about dogs and dog owners.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 01/05/2021 11:22

@CarrieBlue

So if you reckon there’s no aggression it isn’t a bite, it’s ‘mouthing’ despite there being an injury/broken skin/pain? That sums up everything I dislike about dogs and dog owners.
Puppies mouth. I don't really know what else you want me to say on the matter, lol - it's a bit like saying you dislike children and parents because babies teeth.

I'm not saying it's nice or that it's acceptable for it to happen to strangers, but it's just a fact of them being a baby animal. Good owners won't let their puppies mouth strangers and will teach them bite inhibition from the day they bring their pups home.