Have I turned into that dog owner...child...”bite”

[Puppalicious]

I always thought it shocking the way some dog owners excused/minimised bites on children, or tried to . In my eyes dogs are way below children in the priority list, but an incident happened yesterday evening and I wondered am I now doing the minimising?
I was at my eldest’s football training yesterday, for most of the session I was at the far reaches of the (small) park as was managing two youngest and my 15 week old puppy. When, close to the end, my DH came we moved closer to the touchline to watch eldest as he could grab the two younger if need be while I managed the puppy who was getting overtired and a bit jumpy and mouthy at this stage. I had her on a tight leash to stop her jumping at my toddler.
Then a girl came flying over and grabbed the puppy in a bear hug around the neck, I gently indicated to her to let go and heard her mother about to her to ask first, then her brother barrelled in and puppy jumped up him in excitement with her mouth open (she adores children). Her tooth must have caught him because he shouted (although not looking v upset) “ah she bit me!”, at which his mum shouted “well that will teach you!” In the moment I was so horrified at how quickly/easily my puppy had been accused of a child bite that I didn’t think to yell over an apology or check on the child at all. I was more worried about my puppy being accused of a child bite. WIBU to be more horrified that my puppy was accused by a child of biting when I didn’t think she bit really at all, than worried about the child? Have I turned into a minimising dog owner? And what’s the etiquette, should I have been full of profuse apologies?

While this was clearly the children's behaviour that is a concern, I think you were unreasonable to be there in the first place.

I don't understand why on earth you would be bring a puppy (or dog) to a recreational ground for children and stand on the sidelines with it. It's not even allowed on any of the recreational grounds anywhere in our surround villages, etc. Rather like bringing a dog into a children's playpark ... you don't do it! We don't want remnants of dog poo on the rec ground or in a play park.

If we see any child approaching our dog (who is soft as a boiled turnip and adores all people, especially children) we always stop them and say "You must always ask if you can stroke a dog you don't know".

We get them to ask, then we say "Yes, because he's a gentle dog who loves all people. But some dogs are afraid of people so that's why you must always ask."

(We're retired teachers - every moment is a teaching moment!)

I don't think you're minimising the bite because it sounds like a small scratch. I would have spoken to the mother both to make sure she knew her DC was ok and to reiterate that if they had asked you'd have said no because puppy is too excitable.
But I think you are slightly minimising your responsibility for how it happened. You can't control other people, random children, busy places so you need to try to control your puppy's immediate environment and as a PP said, if your puppy is small enough to lift, that would have been better. You don't want your pup to accidentally learn bad habits about interacting, public spaces, etc.

Your puppy sounds over stimulated at this point, whilst socialising them is great you don't want to overdo it. That parent should also be more careful as her child might do that to the wrong dog and get properly bitten.

When we adopted our dog (7 months at the time) I was asked if I'd had any thoughts of what my "unacceptable" limit would be for if I wanted to revoke on the adoption. The only one I could think of was an unprovoked aggression.

Dogs and puppies absolutely do - and should respond to behaviour and treatment they are unhappy with. A dog biting someone that has encroached on a boundary should be expected.

Perhaps it’s the untrained, poorly socialised, disobedient brats who should be kept on leads, not the puppy?

I would be annoyed at my kids for this.Ds2 loves dogs he always gets told don't touch a dog without asking permission. Your puppy is still a baby and a very overtired and most like was overwhelmed. Yes your puppy needs to learn not to bite but kids and adults need to learn to ask permission to touch an animal.

My daughter has a 9month old retriever. ,2 children 9 and 6, no dog experience. It's been incredibly hard going. She's at last on the up
All 3 have had to learn to manage the dog. It's been very hard work but they got the hang. Part of it is managing other people. Best trick is dog time out in the loo every time. Dogs getting the message.
More difficult than a 2 year old toddler. Worth it.
Get some good doggy training advice.

@Stormwhale

Most people know that puppies mouth people when excited. This wasn't a bite, it was a puppy jumping up when unexpectedly grabbed by unknown children. Frankly even if she had bitten then it wouldn't have been her fault. The mother needs to teach her children to act appropriately around animals.

You mean most people with/brought up around puppies?

Whilst the mother (and any other parental figure) needs to teach the child to behave around dogs, the dog owner should be equally responsible for ensuring their dog is trained to behave around humans.

I not sure I would agree she shouldn’t have been in that location, the duration yes, was too long. She lives with children, she’s going to be in a lot of places with children unless she’s going to be locked up at home alone. I walked her by myself earlier in the day - the 4 minute walk to the closest park took forever, she lay down, didn’t want to move, I had to carry her most of the way there and back. It was like walking a different dog when we all went to the football (we all had to go as DH was working late) - marching ahead, tail up, delighted to be with the pack. We possibly shouldn’t have gone back towards the training when DH arrived - but the parents had expressly been told to go or stay apart so I wasn’t expecting anyone too close to us! It wouldn’t be fair to shut her up at home because young children might run up to her (she looks like a fluffy teddy), but I won’t worry about appearing a bit rude in future.
Btw, there was definitely no blood and I very much doubt there was a scratch - she arrived to us with a soft mouth and has never left a mark on the kids, but I’m v aware all it takes is for a tooth to accidentally catch a lip or eye so I’m v careful about it. The boy wasn’t crying or even particularly upset.

it's a bit like saying you dislike children and parents because babies teeth.

It really isn’t.

It's only a puppy playing. They can't be trusted to not mouth and nip, they're only babies. Same with the child, they can't be trusted to be gentle with a cute puppy because she was only little. Her mum should have been close enough to stop her and explain or redirect her. Tbh if it were my child I'd just chalk it up to experience, lesson learnt for next time. Two little ones being too rough with each other.

One of the requirements of responsible dog ownership is that you protect the dog from risk; and that includes unpredictable attentions from other dogs and people that might trigger defence or aggression in your dog.

In your situation you should step smartly between your dog and the child and say wte "You must never run at a dog like that; it could scare him and then he might growlor bite. Always ask the owner first, if you can pat their dog or give it a treat. I'll show you where he likes to be stroked.".

Whenever you're out with your dog,  you will become  always  aware  of approaching children,  dogs, cyclists etc ( or cats, squirrels; gunfire,  sirens,  anything you know  either triggers him or spooks him).  You're each others  protector and ambassador. 

Positive encounters with dog-loving strangers are one of the pleasures of ownership; but you manage them on his behalf. You should also be conscious of anxious/nervous adults and children stepping away and trying to stay out of lead reach, and manage those times too.

@1Endeavour2

My daughter has a 9month old retriever. ,2 children 9 and 6, no dog experience. It's been incredibly hard going. She's at last on the up All 3 have had to learn to manage the dog. It's been very hard work but they got the hang. Part of it is managing other people. Best trick is dog time out in the loo every time. Dogs getting the message. More difficult than a 2 year old toddler. Worth it. Get some good doggy training advice.

When it comes to training, some breeds are fast learners at an early age (collies, GS) and some pups are notoriously "late developers".. including retrievers.

All dog ownership is about learning to manage the dog you've got. No two are quite the same ... just like parenthood and children.

I not sure I would agree she shouldn’t have been in that location, the duration yes, was too long. She lives with children, she’s going to be in a lot of places with children unless she’s going to be locked up at home alone. I walked her by myself earlier in the day - the 4 minute walk to the closest park took forever, she lay down, didn’t want to move, I had to carry her most of the way there and back.*

Either way, you put her in a position she shouldn't have been in, and it led to a nip. It's your job to advocate for your puppy and protect them - they can't do it themselves.

Luckily it was just a small nip but there are lots of people who don't like dogs and you don't want that nip from an overwhelmed puppy to turn into a bite from an overwhelmed teenage dog who won't be given the same allowances.

Honestly, it's like having a toddler - you have to have eyes in the back of your head and be ready to step in protect them in a second. It only takes one person to get a nasty nip for your dog to be reported as dangerous - it's always worth remembering that.

I not sure I would agree she shouldn’t have been in that location, the duration yes, was too long. She lives with children, she’s going to be in a lot of places with children unless she’s going to be locked up at home alone. I walked her by myself earlier in the day - the 4 minute walk to the closest park took forever, she lay down, didn’t want to move, I had to carry her most of the way there and back.

Yes, she lives with children but it's not always appropriate to take your dog along - there are times she'll have to be left home alone or in the care of someone else. Getting her used to being around children doesn't have to mean flooding her with lots of noise and new people all at once.

But either way, you put her in a position she shouldn't have been in, and it led to a nip. It's your job to advocate for your puppy and protect them - they can't do it themselves.

Luckily it was just a small nip but there are lots of people who don't like dogs and you don't want that nip from an overwhelmed puppy to turn into a bite from an overwhelmed teenage dog who won't be given the same allowances.

Honestly, it's like having a toddler - you have to have eyes in the back of your head and be ready to step in protect them in a second. It only takes one person to get a nasty nip for your dog to be reported as dangerous - it sounds dramatic when your puppy is only 15 weeks old but your dog doesn't need to bite to be considered dangerous.

@bunniesanddaisies

I think bites get minimised on here (see other thread about Rottweiler biting a six year old and I think half the posters would rehome the child over the dog) but I agree with you, that’s not a bite.

What I would say though is don’t be afraid to be firm with children, in a nice way of course.

That wasn't a bite either!!!

The kids were being badly behaved and the parent needs to keep them under control.

In all honesty though OP, to prevent a worse incident, even if not your dog's fault, you need to get better at getting in between the kids running in and the dog.

If the puppy was your child, and a big dog was running at them, you'd get between the dog and your child in a flash. Because you can't trust your child (or the dog) to react appropriately. You have to do the same and protect your puppy from getting into a situation where he feels he needs to defend himself.

@CarrieBlue

‘Mouthing’ - is that not biting with a softer name? I know nothing about dogs and I dislike the way they are taken everywhere theses days as if they are extra humans and I wouldn’t approach a dog, but I’d have no idea if I’d been bitten or ‘mouthed’ - what’s the difference?

You'd know

No OP you haven’t become that dog owner in the slightest