"Maybe you should be grateful I let you live here for free"

[DefinitelyDone]

A similar thread got me thinking about my situation with OH. After what he said to me the other day I was in no doubt that he was the one being unreasonable, and I think I’m ready to end things with him over it but some perspective would be good.

We were having a discussion/disagreement over getting our children a small pet, and then he said:

“Maybe you should be grateful that I let you live here for free”

This is long so TLDR: He said I ought to be grateful for living in his house for free. I’ve contributed £15k to ‘his house;’ despite that being most of my saving and me having a mostly low income. And have done 90% of the housework and childcare for 14 years. AIBU for thinking I shouldn’t be expected to pay him?

We aren't married but have been together for 14 years and have three children, 12, eight and three.
He bought our house a few years ago but we used to rent, the house is in his name only. I did contribute £10k towards an extension and have spent at least another 5K on things such as furniture and carpets Etc. I’ve also decorated 6 of the rooms alone if that counts for anything.

I have never paid him rent. We lived together for two years before having our first child and I never paid rent then either, though wasn’t working at the time. He’s never asked for money and I’ve always bought my own things/paid my own bills and never asked for money from him.

While being together my finances have ranged from having no income to receiving £40 CTC per month, up to receiving a higher amount of CTC when he went self employed, to me earning anywhere from £100 -£1000 per week over the past few years but this has now reduced back down again over the past few months and doesn’t look to be increasing again. I’m also very unlikely to be receiving CTC next year as his income has increased again.

My point is that my financial situation is changeable but other than the past few years I’ve had a pretty low income.

He always paid the rent before he bought the house, but there is no mortgage now, he pays for most of the food and household bills, but nothing that is just mine such as my phone bill Etc.

I pay for everything for the children and always have, even when I had hardly any money when our first was born, I bought all her clothes and baby things second hand.
I buy all of their clothes, their school uniforms, activities, pay for school trips and days out, every birthday and Christmas I have bought 90% of their gifts.
I do pretty much all of the housework and childcare. He is better with our three year old than he ever was with the other two and does tend to his evening (not middle of the night) awakenings which he never did with the others. Basically, he’s just being a father there, sort of, but this was pretty amazing when he started that as I was completely on my own with the very frequent evening and night awakenings with my first two.
He never, ever gets up early to help with the children. He never, ever lets me sleep in in the mornings. He rarely gets up for work before 10am and is usually home by 5pm, often earlier.
There was a period of about a month when our second was a baby and went through a period of wanting to sleep in when it was time to get up to get my first to nursery. After much nagging he started taking our first to nursery so I could sleep in a little and let the baby sleep in too but this didn’t last long and he hasn’t helped in the morning since. Eight years since.
He occasionally collects them from school but I do all the school related things- homework, spelling, reading Etc, I did all of the home learning, even during the first lock down when he had no work. I battled a very reluctant seven year old with a very demanding toddler while he hid in his ‘office’ playing games or whatever.
I have always done pretty much all of the housework, until our three year old was born I used to do his laundry too, now he sorts his own clothes out, I do pretty much all of the cooking, cleaning, tidying.

Things got very bad during lockdown and I pretty much stopped everything. He had no excuse of being
busy with work and witnessing how he watched me fall apart and didn’t step in to help really hit home how things were, so I did the minimal laundry and pretty much stopped cooking and cleaning. The rest of the day was home schooling. He started to occasionally wash towels and load/unload the dishwasher a few times. He’s even mopped the kitchen floor and cleaned a bathroom or two a couple of times. Amazing. I wish I wasn’t joking.

So bearing in mind all I do and have done, is it unreasonable of me to think that actually, I shouldn’t have to pay him a penny to live here? I shouldn’t be grateful for living here for free like it’s an amazing kindness from him, and that actually, he’s the unreasonable asshole here and should be grateful for everything I do. It’s really shown me how he feels towards me; I’m just a lodger that doesn’t contribute in any way.

I realise all this is grounds to LTB and after several similar threads and being told to, I think I’m finally ready to call it a day, but right now I want to focus on who’s being unreasonable here and if I’m deluded.

You may fall under ‘common law spouse’, and be entitled to something when you split

In what country has this please? Becayse it’s not the uk.

There was a comment on a previous similar unmarried partners thread - women pay for the donkey work, men pay for assets. So true. So many of these similar posts is depressing how clueless people are re legal rights. You wouldn’t give 10k to a flat mate to do up his house. My Dd is year 10 and has had part of one phse lesson on this. That’s it.

@Unreasonabubble

Why don't women just bloody well get married before they have children? I must have been so old fashioned. I "dated" my husband for 9 years before he proposed. I did tell him "no marriage, no children". It took us 2 years after Marriage to conceive.

Why do women just not know that they have no rights if they are not married? You would think in this day and age, they are more clued up than they are.

Where are women's brains?

That's what it boils down to. And so many also settle for 'we're engaged' and no wedding. I thought engaged means there's going to be a wedding soon.

And there's a lot of 'falling' pregnant. Fair enough. I went belt and braces with contraception to avoid that, but then so many then move in with the bloke and play wifey, give that baby his surname, pay 50/50 like a flatmate despite being the Maid of All Work and bedwarmer, then have another or more with the chap and wonder why he won't get married.

My friend lived with her partner in her own home (mortgaged) for 8 years. When the relationship ended he took her to court and was able to prove he had contributed to the household. they had no kids, but she was ordered to repay him and had to either sell the house or add to the mortgage to pay him back. Surly this kind of thing should work for the OP, especially as she has his children. Not an expert in this field but instead of assuming she’s not entitled to anything, maybe some legal advice would be useful.

@Singleworkingmum123

I was in a similar situation where I was told for many years I was living rent free in his house even though we both contributed 50/50 to all the bills/mortgage. But my name was never put on the deeds. We were together 14 years, we had children together but we never married. He cheated, then threw me & his children out to move in his new woman & her children. We left without a penny. There was nothing I could do legally - and I tried. I am now financially screwed for the rest of my life :(

I think that there should be a campaigning group around this, it’s such a misogynistic and horrible position women find themselves just because they weren’t ‘savvy’ enough to get married. It isn’t fair and the solution isn’t just ‘to get a job’ in many cases.

And yes a man would probably carry on working and farm out the childcare - or move in new girlfriend to take that on - is that the better way to bring up children? Of course not, revolving childcare is really problematic for a number of reasons. Arent’ we supposed to be becoming a better society and better parents for our children - rather than advocating that the solution to this obviously misogynistic scenario is that our kids get a worse deal. Always the women and the kids who are expected to subsume their needs to a mans.

Why oh why did he buy a house and you allow it without your name on the deeds when it was your family home ?
A huge red flag.

I think that there should be a campaigning group around this, it’s such a misogynistic and horrible position women find themselves just because they weren’t ‘savvy’ enough to get married. It isn’t fair and the solution isn’t just ‘to get a job’ in many cases.

I don't agree and thankfully the law doesn't either and there's plenty of support for that being the status quo. It's up to individuals to educate themselves about their rights and responsibilities regarding their own finances and the law allowing them the freedom to make choices regarding this rather than the nanny state stepping in and doing it like we're all school children.

This, copied and pasted from family law website.

Unlike married couples or those in a Civil Partnerships, cohabiting couples do not automatically have financial claims against each other upon separation.

Property rights for unmarried couples differ depending on whether the couple live in rented accommodation or whether they own a property together. In this blog, we look at some of the most common questions cohabitating couples have about their legal rights in respect of property:

Do I have a legal right to remain living in our home if my relationship has broken down?
Rented property
If you are living with your partner in rented accommodation and you are not named in the tenancy agreement, you have no rights to stay in the property if your partner asks you to move out.

However, if the tenancy agreement is in joint names you both have an equal right to stay in the property if your relationship breaks down.

If necessary, it is possible for a court to transfer the tenancy. For example, you may wish to transfer the joint tenancy into your partner’s sole name. However, bear in mind that your landlord would have to agree to any change to the tenancy agreement.

Top tip: Before moving into rented accommodation with your partner, ensure the tenancy agreement is in joint names.

Owned property
If the house you live in is owned by you both, you both have an equal right to remain in the property if your relationship breaks down.

If your partner is the sole owner of the property only he has the right to remain in the property unless you you obtains an order from the court that you have a right of occupation, known as an Occupation Order (more about this below). It’s also important to understand that you may be able to claim a ‘beneficial interest’ in the property. A ‘beneficial interest’ may give a cohabiting partner who doesn’t own the property the right to:

Live in the property
A share of the income if the property is rented out
A share of the profit of the sale if the property is sold

Occupation Order
In certain circumstances it is possible, as an unmarried partner, to get a court order enabling you to remain (usually temporarily) in the property. This has to be done through court proceedings.

Am I entitled to half the house if we aren’t married?
The starting point is to look at how the property is owned.

If the property is owned in your partner’s sole name there may still be a document confirming that you have an interest in it, this would normally be in the form of a Declaration of Trust.

If there is no Declaration of Trust you may still be able to show that you should have an interest in the property if you can demonstrate that:

There was a common intention between you that you would have an interest in the property and you have acted to your detriment in reliance of this.
Or

You were led to believe by your partner that you had a beneficial interest and as a consequence of this you acted to their detriment.
In other words you would, in most cases, have to prove that following an injection of capital/cash into the property you did so believing that there was an agreement or understanding that this was in return for a beneficial interest in the property and therefore you expect to receive this capital back when the relationship breaks down.

Where children are involved it needs to be established what is considered as the family home and who will have custody. It’s imperative to have sound legal advice as there will usually be court involvement to protect their rights. Depending on your circumstances it may be possible to register an interest for you in the property with land registry, but this needs to be done quickly and preferably before you leave the property, so prompt advice is key.

OP, I don't think he can just ask you to leave. At the very least he has to give you 30 days notice, but the fact that you have children together changes things as the courts need to establish their family home etc. Before you do any more, get some advice either from a family law solicitor or from citizens advice. Don’t just assume you are not entitled to anything - you have his children, you have contributed to the upkeep of the house and you need to do everything you can to protect your own rights and those of your children.

@Bluntness100. No such thing as a common law spouse in the UK.

thanks for explaining wewereliars. Dam.

@DishingOutDone There's another thread like this on the go at the moment, the OP in question has been with her H for 25 years and is married, he's moved on to controlling all their money but its the same principal: you have children, its family money, its the family home

This OP isn’t married though, so doesn’t have the automatic legal rights a married couple enjoy. So it’s not really the same principle because this OP will have to prove her entitlement to anything instead of receiving an award as part of a legal divorce settlement.

[quote pam290358]@Bluntness100. No such thing as a common law spouse in the UK.[/quote]
Exactly

You need a good solicitor -fast!!

Don't get any oets until you've left him
And gave your life more sorted. It's not fair on the pets or the kids and it's adding complications you don't need right now-just wait.

Get onto finding a good solicitor as a priority.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

Yy

It's also pressure to seen cool and not want to tie a man down.. Be independent.
I know person like this and now they feel trapped, definitely no marriage, definitely no sharing.. What's his is very much his.

Then it became fashionable not to be married.

Why on earth did you let him put the house in his sole name? Why aren't you married? It looks as though you've lost everything. In your shoes, I'd just cut and run. It's not too late. He doesn't love you anyway!

I agree completely with @winched and @Fucket

2 of my friends were low-earning, non-career driven young women who spent the time between school/college and getting together with their OHs just coasting along, waiting for Mr Right Job.

Friend A just did exactly the same as her mum and older sister - left school with few qualifications with the sole intention of finding someone to look after her.

When it happened she quickly got him married and soon had a child and gave up work as soon as humanly possible. The agreed plan was always for her to go back to work as soon as DC went to school but she pushed and fought against that - tears, the lot - and only went back 2 days a week. That child (only child) is now 15 and she is still doing just 2 days a week. Her DH resents it massively and has seemingly little respect for her - and it's all over lack of work/contribution but she's adamant that she's not going to work a minute more than she has to and openly admits she prefers DH's resentment to the idea of working.

Friend B, not dissimilar in many ways but they didn't marry and she hasn't worked a day in her life since she was 6 months pregnant - both DC have now long left school. Her stance is that she just 'prefers not to work'. Luckily her OH isn't massively resentful, as far as I can tell, but she's worried that he's gradually started 'wondering' what she's going to do for the next 20 years without DC to look after... Without him she would have had nothing like the lifestyle she currently has and if he calls it quits, she's going to be screwed other that what she can get out of him.

To me it beggars belief that so many woman make themselves completely dependent on someone else. It really does need to start with education - why do so many young women think it's a good idea?

And like a PP said, the idea often trotted out on here about how a man couldn't have earned the money and had the career he's had with the partner there is just absolute nonsense. It really is.

If both parents working means that, with childcare, they're no better off than with one of them at home in the early days, so what? It's not all about exactly how much money is in the bank at the end of the month for the first couple of years, it's about the next 10/20/30+ Years.

@Startingagainperson

The answer is clearly because most people jump at the chance to have everything taken care of financially for the price of weekly housework and looking after your own children. Why else would so many people do it if wasn't such a cushty deal? Why are so many women so down on another woman being a parent herself and not paying a childminder - and saying that parenting is really cushy and easy?

So many people do it, so many women should we say, because they like being a parent and are good at it and because it’s really good for the kids and the family unit. Women often do what is best for everyone.

Why else would a woman give up her financial autonomy, her own pension, her ability for fulfillment in a career? Because she likes doing her nails while the children are at school? No most women work around the children’s needs, which means part-time, which means holidays, which means taking the lesser job just to ensure that happens.

Women, working or SAHM are both doing pretty amazing on the whole. But one set get far more screwed than the other. Especially the ones who aren’t married as they aren’t the ones, on teh whole, who are selfish and assertive enough to have protected themselves by marriage or kept their own full time job no matter what and did not give up a single sick day for the kids.

This is why we need a like button! Well said 👏

It does not sound like he’s the type of person to agree to marriage now, with the OP’s sole purpose to them divorce him ASAP just so the OP can get at least half of his assets!

The OP was duped thinking he was decent and now realises that she failed to protect herself along the way.

I’d only recommend getting married at this stage (after already having DC together) if he was a nicer person, he appreciated and respected OP’s contribution to their home and the DC and the relationship was healthy.

IMO, trying to force marriage on someone like this is not worth the headache. Get your ducks in a row and make plans to leave.

Yes too many men are having their cake and it isn't good

It lets them off the hook and makes it harder for womenswear

Women

[quote Puttingouthefirewithgasoline]@osbertthesyrianhamster

Yy

It's also pressure to seen cool and not want to tie a man down.. Be independent.
I know person like this and now they feel trapped, definitely no marriage, definitely no sharing.. What's his is very much his.

Then it became fashionable not to be married.[/quote]
Which is fine providing there's no enmeshing of finances and both pay in to equivalent ratios and have equivalent spending money/savings/etc, no donkeywork all done by the women but shared equally, children have both surnames, house or tenancy in both names. Far too many women allow themselves to get involved with a man who wants a bidey in, gratis.

The law needs to change so that there is recognition of ‘common law’ partnerships IMO.

I really don’t want to ever get married. I stand to inherit quite a substantial amount from my side of the family and frankly I’ll be fucked if there’s even the slightest chance DP might bugger off with half of what’s mine and let some OW benefit from it.

I really don’t think that marriage or financial vulnerability should be the only two options for women who want a family.

You can do a pre nuptial I believe to protect your finances.

‘If both parents working means that, with childcare, they're no better off than with one of them at home in the early days, so what? It's not all about exactly how much money is in the bank at the end of the month for the first couple of years, it's about the next 10/20/30+ Years.‘

@SofiaMichelle
Agree 💯

Pre nups aren’t legal in many countries still including the UK sadly. It would be better if they were.