I have never been harrassed by strange men

[TunMahla]

On the heels of topic asking if you would walk alone in the woods, where many women say no, especially as a lot of them seem to have been harrassed by random strangers (I assume men) on the streets or in the countryside. See, it would never cross my mind to avoid going on my own in daylight as nothing bad ever happened to me yet. The only incidents that come to mind are being crudely chatted up by corner shopkeepers but I would not count that in the same way as I was not outside on my own. Perhaps it helps that in the nicest possible way, I am not conventionally attractive. I feel that I am in a minority here regarding harassment and would like to find out how small minority that is to better understand other women's experiences.
YABU - I have been harassed by strangers in urban or rural areas
YANBU - I have never been harassed

Loads of Women get harrassed for being 'ugly' to men too. Its not about attractive.

Yep, and many men start calling you ugly as soon as you reject their advances.

These men are like dogs. They can smell fear/vulnerability/weakness that they can exert dominance over. That's not victim blaming, just my experience!

That very much is victim blaming, though.

That is absolutely not victim blaming. Where are you getting the impression that the victim could be held responsible for any of that?

You must exude power and confidence, op. Good for you.

I was harrassed from the age of 12.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan Can you explain how it's victim blaming? These dickheads like to exert control and dominance and target the ones they perceive as vulnerable. It's absolutely the fault of the men who act like animals.

Perhaps you just live in a civilised area 🤷‍♀️

When I lived in London I was

• groped by stranger on tube
• when commuting, so many times a stranger would stand pressed against me so their cock was touching me
• stones thrown at me by randoms in street
• followed most of way home by strange men
• wolf whistles / car horn beeps etc
• spat at out of car window
• mugged

Can’t imagine any of that happening in the quiet town I live in now. We do have a flasher apparently but I’ve not met him yet.

@GreyhoundG1rl and @Sparklfairy victim blaming means attributing full or partial responsibility for an offence to the victim. So it can be as obvious as saying, 'Well, she must have wanted it if she dressed like that." It can also take more subtle forms, like saying that a woman's stance or demeanour or weakness or 'street smarts' can play a part in whether she is harassed or attacked.

In short - the entire focus should be on the offender. If you start analysing aspects of the victim's personality or behaviour that you think may have been a contributory factor, that's victim blaming.

(Also - it certainly is not only frightened or weak women who are attacked or harrassed.)

So it can be as obvious as saying, 'Well, she must have wanted it if she dressed like that." It can also take more subtle forms, like saying that a woman's stance or demeanour or weakness or 'street smarts' can play a part in whether she is harassed or attacked.
Sorry, I disagree. The first example is outrageous and clearly should be knocked on the head.
The rest? Explaining why a thing may have happened is not a value judgement. Women are weaker than men, in the main.
Some men use this to their advantage. To say this is not to "blame" the woman for not being as strong as a man. The blame for the man's actions is still clearly with the man.

Saying something is a contributory factor doesn't imply blame. A contributory factor in being mugged may be wearing expensive jewellery.
This doesn't imply it's the wearer's fault for wearing it.

[quote JesusInTheCabbageVan]**@GreyhoundG1rl* and @Sparklfairy* victim blaming means attributing full or partial responsibility for an offence to the victim. So it can be as obvious as saying, 'Well, she must have wanted it if she dressed like that." It can also take more subtle forms, like saying that a woman's stance or demeanour or weakness or 'street smarts' can play a part in whether she is harassed or attacked.

In short - the entire focus should be on the offender. If you start analysing aspects of the victim's personality or behaviour that you think may have been a contributory factor, that's victim blaming.

(Also - it certainly is not only frightened or weak women who are attacked or harrassed.)[/quote]
I get what you're saying. Perhaps I worded it poorly. By saying that these men sniff out weakness, the responsibility is fully on them. No different to a 6ft rugby player walking down a dark alley at night and a 5ft woman walking down the same alley later. And maybe Gina Carano walking down after that! It's not the victim's fault that their attacker, whether the intention is mugging or shouting abuse or whatever, weighed up the odds of getting away with it first.

@GreyhoundG1rl

Saying something is a contributory factor doesn't imply blame. A contributory factor in being mugged may be wearing expensive jewellery. This doesn't imply it's the wearer's fault for wearing it.

Of course it implies blame! FFS.

For example:

'A woman walking home alone at night may be a contributory factor in her being murdered.'
'Being at a club may be a contributory factor in a woman being sexually assaulted.'
'Going to the home of a man she'd only just met was a contributory factor in her being raped.'

You can see why the above are problematic, yes? If someone is the victim of an offence, don't focus on what they did to 'cause' it.

@Sparklfairy no worries

Thing is girls aged 12 to say 16 or 18 ARE vulnerable.

At the younger end they are children.

Most girls when they're young find this sort of thing embarrassing and intimidating. It's an age when many girls are very self conscious (boys are too, not a sex thing but a teenager thing).

By the time I was 16 I'd had enough of this stuff to just ignore it/ let it wash over. Because I was used to it. It was a normal backdrop to life for me and my friends.

That's not in any way good, is it. It's not positive to roll your eyes when an adult man says something obscene to you on the street or exposes himself to you, because you're used to it.

Also from about 15 I was a bolshy sod. Yes men prey on those they perceive as/ know are vulnerable. That's why girls with disabilities have such high rates of abuse. Yes it's good for the girl who doesn't get anything (although I doubt it's due to giving off certain vibes!). But he'll do it to someone else instead. Someone he does perceive as vulnerable.

The doubt the best to look out for yourself is good of course. But it's what always gets focussed on and to me does smack of victim blaming. EG a girl with profound disabilities is assaulted by a man. The underlying thought of well, she's vulnerable... (And so what can you do... Is the subtext that I think is often not recognised).

Anyway I was a bolshy sod and I can tell you for a fact that many of these men become very aggressive if you don't react how they want you to/ say something rude to them/ tell them to piss off.

I always wonder at the give back as good as you get thing because IME it is a dangerous tactic. And one that is doubly so because like it or not, a grown man will usually have a physical advantage. Especially if the person who refuses to be upset/intimidated (which is what they like) is a 16 yo 7 stone schoolgirl.

In recent weeks off the top of my head there's been a woman murdered walking home at night and a woman murdered while out walking her dog.

Loads of women are also murdered at home.

So if the idea is to minimise risk then we shouldn't go out and also we shouldn't stay in if there's a man at home...

I hate all these lists of 'rules' for women most of which are stupidly restrictive to follow and really only serve to mean that whenever any woman or girl is attacked, they will pretty much always have done something 'wrong'. And then everyone says oh well why was she xyz and that becomes the focus. And I think an element of. It's scary to think it's luck. So to think well it was because of X and I don't do X is comforting.

Age 11 regularly flashed at by random blokes in the park. At the same age sexually molested while out with a friend by a conniving creep. We were at an age, and at a time, when children were taught to do what adults told them, and we had no clue about sex at all.
Carried on from there: masturbated on trains, propositioned as if I was a prostitute while waiting for a bus, culminating in rape by a male member of my friendship group. And I've always been plain, modestly dressed. So enough with the victim blaming please.

You have to be able to do it in such a way that doesn't cause injury to a man with low self-esteem, doesn't come across as entitled or conceited, doesn't come across as too vague, too blunt 🤣 Do one dickhead works a treat too. if alone run like the wind use force if necessary.

@NiceGerbil That poor woman walking her dog.

I really don't recommend biting back.

If people want to do it then that's up to them. When I've done it a lot of them have got really aggressive.

I have been. I was today.

To fully set the scene I was walking down a fairly busy road with my mid sized dogs, who were sniffing bushes. I was wearing loose jeans, a loose jumper and a long non fashion coat. No makeup and hair scraped back. Standing straight and confident. tell me what I did wrong there!

Man, three or four women and a girl about 10 came towards me. May yells out, as if to child but obviously to everyone
"Look out for that fear some dog, don't go near it" after he passed he said making sure I heard

"Watch out for the four legged one too!"

Oh the hilarity. Not bad in the scheme of things and it bothered me a bit but he'd be disappointed to know how little. The thing is, although it wasn't sexual, it's not something he'd say to a man is it?

Most wash over me, I'm alert to danger but less so to insults, but there have been others. Bloke offering money for a blow job. The hands "accidentally " brushing against me. Yells from a car window. Nothing too serious but the drip drip drip.

There are times where I change my route or deliberately slow down so that someone will have to pass me in a populated area and I can get away if required. I listen to music but quietly enough that I can hear surroundings. I carry my dog lead so it can be used as a weapon. I assess everyone I see. I do all this unconsciously, it's pure habit.

Bit shit, really.

I've never been harassed by strangers like walking down the street etc. Been honked at etc but wouldn't call that harassment. However I have been harassed by men I know, practically begging me to sleep with them, like really not taking no for an answer. And I suppose now I'm thinking about it I've had some issues with men at work, flirting/making really rude/sexually charged remarks/making me feel uncomfortable. But no, never in the streets randomly.

I think you read the situation when biting back, some drunk guy outside a bar, some creep in work - yes tell him to get stuffed.
A man with a threatening demeanour in a secluded area, definitely don't agitate just get out of there as safely as possible.

A man in a pub got in my face and was shouting let's take it outside (fight) after I said no thanks in not really a very rude way.

Men on the street will follow you/ get out the car etc if you bite back, sometimes.

I think it's a really bad idea. Some men go to super aggressive in the blink of an eye.

You don't know which one is which.

Work is different obv. That goes without saying surely?

Since I was about 11 boys and men have enjoyed pointing out how unattractive I am. They shout abuse at me in the street to make their friends laugh. I also had a man push me against the wall and put his hand up my skirt, saying "I can't resist because you are just So attractive!" And really laughing, while his friends (including some females) laughed too. It's left me with zero confidence and a feeling that if I wear make up or nice clothes people will just laugh at me. I hate the culture we live in where women are just there for men's amusement, either to gratify them sexually or just as someone to laugh at and look down on and dismiss as rubbish, like me.

I had never had a man expressing interest in me unless very, very drunk. I don't doubt other women get it a lot though - I have eyes.

@Maggiesfarm

You must exude power and confidence, op. Good for you.

I was harrassed from the age of 12.

Same. And I've been ugly, pretty, thin, overweight and everything in between.