What would you think of a father in this situation? Is it the system or does it reflect more on the man?

[moralduty]

Man pays over £1000 per month for the lease hire of a luxury brand new car and pays a quarter of this for his two children with his ex. This is calculated by the CMS. He doesn't pay towards school uniform or any extras, just the calculated amount. How does this system work? Do they really think that teenagers cost less than £10 a day? Is it fair that a father can spend four times as much a month on his car than his children? I know that some don't give anything at all and that's worse but the system stinks.

He's a shit father and a shit person. Unfortunately many people including plenty of women seem to think men like this are the dogs bollocks for paying any child support at all, even the absolute bare minimum, even if it’s so low because they’ve fiddled their wages or something to pay less. “Because at least he’s paying something”

A child does not cost £10 a day £70 a week my ds
Food for the week £15
Week gas and electric £5 tops he is at school most the day
Rent 1/3 £33 (but we had a 2 bed before ds so £0 really, council tax and other bills £6
That £11 a week left over from cm alone and parents are ment to share the cost so that £140 a week really thus more then covers a child's needs

@Dddccc

A child does not cost £10 a day £70 a week my ds Food for the week £15 Week gas and electric £5 tops he is at school most the day Rent 1/3 £33 (but we had a 2 bed before ds so £0 really, council tax and other bills £6 That £11 a week left over from cm alone and parents are ment to share the cost so that £140 a week really thus more then covers a child's needs

Does your child walk around naked? Never need to get a bus anywhere? No trips/clubs/activities? Can I trade my teens in for these children that cost pennies to raise please.

@whatwouldphylliscranedo if you pay the same amount ie dad pays 70 mum pays 70 thats 140 a week for 1 child dont forget you get child benefit of 21 on top and if you are entitled to child tax credits around 45 so if anyone tells me a teen cost more then 200 pound a week they are talking crap and its about there lifestyle choices thats what end up costing more I was giving what my ds cost me, however I am a 1 income house and manage to pay for 3 people for everything on 15k a year

I didn't say they cost more than £200 per week. Merely pointed out that your costings were actually missing quite a few things out and that a child costs more than you've allocated.

FWIW I'm also a single adult household and my ex pays sweet FA. I did a rough calculation and was at £104 per person per week before clothing/bus fares/the odd bit of spending money. Based on my housing costs that is.
If you're working and earning 15k surely you get some top ups? If not you should be!

Nope not missing anything as thats covered by the unallocated £81 that is more then enough per week for clothes, hobbie,and treats

Riiiight so your dc does cost more than you listed then

@Dddccc

A child does not cost £10 a day £70 a week my ds Food for the week £15 Week gas and electric £5 tops he is at school most the day Rent 1/3 £33 (but we had a 2 bed before ds so £0 really, council tax and other bills £6 That £11 a week left over from cm alone and parents are ment to share the cost so that £140 a week really thus more then covers a child's needs

It's not necessarily about the basics though. The child should have the same quality of life that the parents have.

My ex earns well for the area we live in and pays me a good amount of maintenance. Sure, I could pay for everything for DS on my own without that money if I had to. But why should DS only get the "basics" in life when his dad is living in a 4 bedroom house and going on several foreign holidays a year?

Luckily my ex agrees and wouldn't see DS going without when he can afford to give more.

Children cost absolutely nothing at all.
They all live in a hole underground and eat earthworms and soil. They drink rainwater and use cosmic vibes to keep warm. They are self cleaning too. They don’t wear real clothes or wash.
Meanwhile an adult male absolutely must spend £1000 per month paying to lease a car.

@moralduty

The cost of the car is something to do with a pension reduction scheme so he hardly pays anything towards his pension. He might regret that in later years.

So the £1000 for the car is actually a lot less?

He cares more about his car and image than his kids.

Dickhead.

@Dddccc

A child costs a lot more than £10 a day in my opinion

How can you feed a child for £15 a week? I find that unbelievable. It costs a lot more than that and to spend £5 a week for gas and electric?

There are rent
Council tax
Water
Gas
Electric
Internet
Tv licence
Tv subscription
Phone
Clothes and shoes
Toys
Computer games
Toiletries
Money for fun and rewards
Food and treats
Driving them around, paying for taxis or public transport

And that's just off the top of my head, there are bound to be other things needed too.

A father spending on a car rather than providing for their child to have the best living they can provide is an arse.

Mine aren't teens yet, but the biggest cost is opportunity costs. Were I not the main carer for children I would be the next level up in my career by now, and £10k p/a better off. I'd rather have the kids, obviously, but the time and effort spent raising them is time and effort I haven't spent working. The other big costs is either childcare, or activities. I wouldn't want my teens home alone every evening, they will be too old for childcare so I'll be paying out for dance / sports / drama clubs. I COULD bring them up differently but we are looking at actual cost of them, not cheapest theoretical cost.

Makes little sense, if he’s paying that he’s a relatively low earner, so the car is unlikely to cost a grand a month, even on a pension reduction scheme, the two numbers are contradictory.

@Dddccc

A child does not cost £10 a day £70 a week my ds Food for the week £15 Week gas and electric £5 tops he is at school most the day Rent 1/3 £33 (but we had a 2 bed before ds so £0 really, council tax and other bills £6 That £11 a week left over from cm alone and parents are ment to share the cost so that £140 a week really thus more then covers a child's needs

£400pm rent is incredibly low and unheard of in my part of the country, so we do need to take into account that not everyone has the same circumstances.

£15pw for food is also very cheap, I spend more than that on my 4yo and she eats like a bird.

Also your list has not factored in any clothes, shoes, travel (bus or car), water, pocket money or any possessions for your child 🤔

Gilberts forget the physical things DC need, clothes, food etc. They also need 'care' and 'supervision'. Particularly younger DC. They can't be left alone. That care would cost the NRP several pounds an hour for a nursery, childminder, afterschool club etc. Much more overnight. And he is responsible for half the week. That's 84 hours care a week at at least several pounds an hour. Expensive.

[quote AerisAsh]@Dddccc

A child costs a lot more than £10 a day in my opinion

How can you feed a child for £15 a week? I find that unbelievable. It costs a lot more than that and to spend £5 a week for gas and electric?

There are rent
Council tax
Water
Gas
Electric
Internet
Tv licence
Tv subscription
Phone
Clothes and shoes
Toys
Computer games
Toiletries
Money for fun and rewards
Food and treats
Driving them around, paying for taxis or public transport

And that's just off the top of my head, there are bound to be other things needed too.

A father spending on a car rather than providing for their child to have the best living they can provide is an arse. [/quote]
So in effect you want the NRP to cover a good portion of your bills. This proves what I always said that the RP wants as much money as possible.

How much is a reasonable amount to receive for 1 child per month? Bearing in mind the RP would also be entitled to benefits etc

Remember the NRP has to also fund all what's in that list for his own home as well. Does that not count towards the children?

My partner pays the minimum of 400 pound a month to his ex but why to RP assume that's the only money that they spend on children.

I don’t buy the argument it should include rent and bills. Both parents will need to pay those regardless so that the children go between the two homes and feel they belong in both houses.

Food, clothes, school transport and books etc yes. So his £250, the other parents £250 and then child benefit makes around £640 for 2.

Hard to judge with just one side known. His employer could be assisting with the car payment etc.

As an adult I’d have housing costs and bills to pay. As RP I have housing costs for my child and I. As the only adult in the house (since my husband left the family home) I have to pay 100% of the rent and bills. I don’t have the option of sharing bills with a friend in a house share (ex) or moving in with a new partner (also ex). I could move a partner in and share costs but that wouldn’t be right for my child. Thank goodness for help from benefits (despite working full time) but ex really should be contributing more than he does.

@Loveacoseynightin

I was just pointing out there are more things that go towards keeping a child or a family that just the minimum. They are not my bills but all bills needed to be paid to keep a roof over a families head.

I think a NRP should pay a good amount towards bringing up their children rather than just the minimum. Why shouldn't they?
If they had any decency they would want their child to have the best.

@Loveacoseynightin I suppose it depends on how often the NRP has the children overnight and what they buy for them otherwise. I get £500pm for one child which is a good amount but I pay for absolutely everything out of that - hobbies, clothes, shoes, school dinners, etc. DS stays at his dad's around 3 or 4 nights a month on average and his dad pays for everything while he is there. Obviously I do much more day to day parenting and I have to arrange my work hours around school, DS's dad works shifts so I have to arrange DS's visits to him around his working life too. We also split the cost of school uniform and things like birthday parties.

A child does not cost £10 a day £70 a week my ds
Food for the week £15
Week gas and electric £5 tops he is at school most the day
Rent 1/3 £33 (but we had a 2 bed before ds so £0 really, council tax and other bills £6
That £11 a week left over from cm alone and parents are ment to share the cost so that £140 a week really thus more then covers a child's needs

I think these amounts are unrealistic in most of the country. I'd suggest

£25 food a week - £3.57 a day
£1 a day gas and elec
Rent - share of £1000 a month £11 a day
Council tax - share of £2000 a year - £1.85 a day
Cheap mobile phone - 33p a day
Clothing inc school uniforms and shoes £50 a month or £1.66 a day
TV package and license £1.66 a day
Modest pocket money of £5 a week, 71p
School lunch twice a week, £5 a week, 71p

Even just this lot adds up to £22.49 a day. Obviously there are then activity costs on top of this which can easily be £10 a day in themselves when you add everything in. Dad could of course be paying for them separately but he isn't is he? Plus the RP can find it harder to work as much if they are doing the bulk of the child care so taking it 50/50 is not always sensible.

Why do people always maintain that NRPs also have to provide a home etc etc for the dc? My ex doesn't. Since he moved in with his wife 8 years ago our joint DC have been allowed to sleep over once. On the sofa. Using blankets that I had to send from my house. They've been on 1 of the "family holidays" that ex and his wife et Al go on 3x per year. I had to send everything. Including suncream, toothpaste and ice-cream money

Yes the NRPs probably should be providing a house that the dc can see as home. But many aren't.

Other than the toddler sized portions of lunch and dinner DC get once per week (if they are lucky, their 'd'f hasn't seen them at all since Covid) and birthday and Christmas presents he pays for absolutely fuck all. They are usually so hungry when they come home from a day at Daddy's that I have to feed them again. And he often picked them up after lunch not at 9am like he's meant to meaning I was actually still providing 3 meals that day as well as everything else and all of the care/admin for them.
Can't imagine why 16 year old wants to change his surname ASAP!

This thread is batshit insane.

To the poster who argues that they support 3 people on 15k a year, so everyone else should be able to - that is a ridiculous argument. That is far far below the average wage, and most people wouldn’t consider starting a family on such a low wage. Not everyone has to survive on so little just because you do (and I assume you live in a very cheap part of the country).

Most families will start out with a much higher joint income when deciding to have children together, and yes, when one parent buggers off and leaves the children with the resident parent the majority of the time, they have a moral responsibility to still support their children, to the same standard as when they were all living together. Not bung them a couple of hundred quid a month and say “well people living in poverty can manage on that so ha ha!”

If he puts such a priority on a car, but not his children or pension then he's a man with poor judgement and morals