To be pissed off parents who don't pay child support STILL isn't a priority?

[daretodenim]

My friend just found out her ex is on the other side of the world, living in great town (brilliant weather, loads of things to do, good quality of life) on a salary that in pounds would be six figures (based on his salary history when together and his current job title).

After they divorced, he disappeared saying divorce means he's not a dad any more!

He's never paid child support. Friend has been financially struggling with two kids to support alone.

When I was a child, 40 years ago, my father fucked off abroad and paid some child support, if end when he decided he felt like it. My mother struggled massively.

Why is not ensuring that your children are fed, housed and clothed AT A MINIMUM, not considered child neglect? Never mind the fact that disappearing and ignoring your children is the definition of emotional neglect!

The issue is always about the mothers (or resident parent) struggling, and they do and it's not fair. But from the child's perspective, if the mother (resident parent) decided to behave in the same way as the father, she'd most likely end up prosecuted for neglect.

I know I'm suggesting it's mainly men who do the fucking off and I do recognise that some women do, but in every case bar one that I've come across, it's been the father.

AIBU to think in 40 years (plus) this should have been resolved by now? Why is neglect not neglect if a father does it? Why can resident parents not move abroad with their children because The Hague Convention will see them charged with kidnapping if the non-resident parent goes to the police (I agree with this btw), but a father actively neglecting his children, is free to carry on?

I'm sure someone will say that women are responsible for who they have children with. I'd suggest that a great many women don't have children with men they believe will neglect their children's basic needs.

[3scape]

YANBU. To have children, then piss off with no care for their well being really should carry some sort of neglect case. But I guess whilst our PM appears to be a prime example of a parent who 'moves on' things will not change.

[Bigtruth]

YANBU that it should be dealt with differently and more needs to be done.

But YABU trying to claim that it is neglect.

It's not helpful when there is a good argument for what you're saying to muddy that argument with nonsense like that. The children in your examples are being left with a parent, not neglected.

[StoneColdBitch]

If it's a country with a REMO agreement in place, the children's mother can claim child maintenance and it should be enforced.

More broadly, I think there's a big difference between dads who don't pay maintenance because they're unemployed or not working due to illness, compared with dads who just don't pay. If a resident parent is unemployed or too sick to work, they get benefits, and the fact that they have resident children is factored into those benefit calculations. If a NRP is on benefits, they often receive very little. So I don't judge NRPs on benefits who pay minimal maintenance, as often it genuinely is all they can afford.

[dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]

I couldn't agree more. Non payment should be as socially unacceptable as drink driving. I have kept the pressure on the CMS for a year due to ex's non payment and they have eventually set up an attachment of earnings. This in turn has sparked ex to mount a campaign of harassment (police involved) and not seeing the children. I'm not going to relinquish the legal minimum amount of maintenance or have it used to abuse mad control me. It's rubbish what some NRP's get up to and get away with.

[daretodenim]

@Bigtruth

YANBU that it should be dealt with differently and more needs to be done.

But YABU trying to claim that it is neglect.

It's not helpful when there is a good argument for what you're saying to muddy that argument with nonsense like that. The children in your examples are being left with a parent, not neglected.

Why is it not neglect? If I don't feed or clothe my children, it would be neglect. It's my duty as a parent.

I can see even less argument against the idea that it's emotional neglect. What is the name for not having contact (from your own choice) with your kids? Human babies and children need social and emotional interaction in order to develop. If you as a parent provide none of that, what are you doing?

[daretodenim]

@StoneColdBitch

If it's a country with a REMO agreement in place, the children's mother can claim child maintenance and it should be enforced.

More broadly, I think there's a big difference between dads who don't pay maintenance because they're unemployed or not working due to illness, compared with dads who just don't pay. If a resident parent is unemployed or too sick to work, they get benefits, and the fact that they have resident children is factored into those benefit calculations. If a NRP is on benefits, they often receive very little. So I don't judge NRPs on benefits who pay minimal maintenance, as often it genuinely is all they can afford.

REMO would apply in her case, but she'd need to go to court (again) beforehand. It's exhausting...

I'm in total agreement about fathers who can't afford to pay..but genuinely. My own had a decent business in the U.K. (he wasn't earning 6 figures, more normal income) and then he went abroad to live on a commune. He lived off the money from his business, but had set it up in a way where it actually appeared to be owned by someone else. So officially he was unemployed...

[daretodenim]

@dattenboroughiskingoftheworld

I couldn't agree more. Non payment should be as socially unacceptable as drink driving. I have kept the pressure on the CMS for a year due to ex's non payment and they have eventually set up an attachment of earnings. This in turn has sparked ex to mount a campaign of harassment (police involved) and not seeing the children. I'm not going to relinquish the legal minimum amount of maintenance or have it used to abuse mad control me. It's rubbish what some NRP's get up to and get away with.

Gosh, sorry you're going through this. WTF is wrong with contributing to your own children's food and housing?!

[IceCreamAndCandyfloss]

Non payment should be as socially unacceptable as drink driving

This ^

Far too many opt out of the financial support for children, be it non resident or resident parents. The government should be doing much more to ensure they do and penalties if not.

[PandaLady]

I guess the reason the CSA doesn't enforce payment is probably very complicated, but it is fucking awful that children grow up in poverty when the NRP chooses to financially neglect their child.

I would like to see custodial sentences for non-payment, because of the damage non-paying NRP's do to their children.

[daretodenim]

I would like to see custodial sentences for non-payment, because of the damage non-paying NRP's do to their children.

Me too Panda. And the ones who go abroad should be traced through Interpol/put on whatever Interpol list people who are wanted internationally are put on. They should be detained at borders. It should be actually and actively hard to leave your own child. Not a simply matter of just walking off!

And don't get me started on the ones who start new families, ignoring the child(ren) who they've decided aren't their responsibility any more!

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

I think it ought to be tied to driving licenses & employment... You need a certificate to say all your child maintenance has been paid promptly and fully.

I would not want to employ someone who was very neglectful of their children

[Bearnecessity]

Yanbu my ds father has not paid one penny in two decades...

Both him and me were desperately poor at times....

[dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]

@IamtheDevilsAvocado

I think it ought to be tied to driving licenses & employment... You need a certificate to say all your child maintenance has been paid promptly and fully.

I would not want to employ someone who was very neglectful of their children

I love this idea! Unlikely to happen though.

[ivegotthisyeah]

It's disgusting and I don't know how the parents who don't pay sleep at night.
Also bugs me that the more kids the parent has the less they have to pay and well if they move it with someone who has kids and their dad pays maintenance you get even less!! Makes my blood boil the whole system

[dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]

@daretodenim
Thank you. I'm actually coping quite well with the pathetic and vengeful behaviours. The children are entirely protected from it and I have a ring of steel around me from work and family and friends. Police were initially poor but an eloquent and well written complaint to professional standards about colluding with abusive perpetrators seems to have focussed their efforts a bit 😂 plus my local PCC is up for election and doesn't need a hoo ha over DV against a gobby bugger like me!

[StoneColdBitch]

@IamtheDevilsAvocado

I think it ought to be tied to driving licenses & employment... You need a certificate to say all your child maintenance has been paid promptly and fully.

I would not want to employ someone who was very neglectful of their children

But if you prevent the NRP from driving, doesn't it make them less likely to find well-paid, regular work, and therefore be able to pay child maintenance?

[strivingtosucceed]

I don't blame you for being annoyed but i'm in 2 minds as to whether this is really something the government should meddle in.

In saying that, I do think not paying for your kids as an NRP should be less socially acceptable, but I think everyone in society has their part to play. From not shacking up with men who are doing this to their current children, to objectively looking at the people in our lives with "crazy exes who just won't let them see the kids" there's a lot we can all do.

On the topic of seizing licenses/passports I wonder if child support were seen as a debt to the government and was on your credit report/DBS with a record of payments would people be as likely to skive off?

[HugeAckmansWife]

stonecold you're making an assumption there that the non payers are "can't pay" rather than "won't pay"...sadly that is so very very often not the case so something that would genuinely piss them off and inconvenience them and be a fairly big loss of status might help. And YY to tying it HMRC and potetnially a base rate being paid to the RP and incurred as a debt.

[ComtesseDeSpair]

The system is patriarchal. And honestly, I suspect a lot of men have their ears twisted into having the children which their female partners want and then, when the relationship ends, are resentful about having to hand over money for kids they didn’t particularly want in the first place. That’s how they justify it to themselves. And the patriarchal system is happy to go along with that because the men at the top making the decisions feel the same way.

[dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]

@StoneColdBitch I would suggest it would motivate them to pay and not be out of work in the first place to keep the driving licence that allows them to drive sociably, drive to airports for their holiday, go to the cinema, pick up a takeaway etc and only a part of it is linked to their work. If it impacts their leisure time I suspect they would feel the need to comply a tad more.

[dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]

@ComtesseDeSpair

The system is patriarchal. And honestly, I suspect a lot of men have their ears twisted into having the children which their female partners want and then, when the relationship ends, are resentful about having to hand over money for kids they didn’t particularly want in the first place. That’s how they justify it to themselves. And the patriarchal system is happy to go along with that because the men at the top making the decisions feel the same way.

My ex said if I didn't agree to have children he would leave me. He hasn't seen the children now for 12 weeks as I won't be silenced and allow him to emotionally abuse them without protest.

[IceCreamAndCandyfloss]

On the topic of seizing licenses/passports I wonder if child support were seen as a debt to the government and was on your credit report/DBS with a record of payments would people be as likely to skive off

I think it’s an idea with potential, make non payment of child support a debt and anything the resident parent claims the same. It should encourage more to ensure they don’t build up a debt and maybe think very carefully before deciding to have children as the financial costs seem overlooked by many.

[wanteddeadoralive18]

Totally agree! My exh hasn’t paid for 3 years for my now 18 and 15 year old and only lives down the road! He doesn’t see either of the kids, drinks in our local and can often be heard bragging how much he earns! CMS now have an attachment of earnings yet I haven’t received the first 2 payments and they don’t appear to have done anything! Very frustrating that there aren’t more sanctions available 😩 🤬🤬

[StoneColdBitch]

[quote dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]@StoneColdBitch I would suggest it would motivate them to pay and not be out of work in the first place to keep the driving licence that allows them to drive sociably, drive to airports for their holiday, go to the cinema, pick up a takeaway etc and only a part of it is linked to their work. If it impacts their leisure time I suspect they would feel the need to comply a tad more. [/quote]
But that implies unemployment, or being too ill to work, are choices. Some men choose not to work so they can avoid paying maintenance, and some are wasters who behave badly and get sacked, but some perfectly decent fathers and employees get made redundant through no fault of their own, or fall ill...

[WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo]

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

On the topic of seizing licenses/passports I wonder if child support were seen as a debt to the government and was on your credit report/DBS with a record of payments would people be as likely to skive off

I think it’s an idea with potential, make non payment of child support a debt and anything the resident parent claims the same. It should encourage more to ensure they don’t build up a debt and maybe think very carefully before deciding to have children as the financial costs seem overlooked by many.

How do you figure that the RP builds up a debt as well?

So a woman works and pays tax then has a child or 2. Her ex fucks off and refuses to pay maintenance or see the dc for more than a few hours here and there. So as well as raising the dc on her own, she also has to earn enough not to need benefits and any benefits she does earn she has to pay back? What a load of bollocks.