To be pissed off parents who don't pay child support STILL isn't a priority?

[daretodenim]

My friend just found out her ex is on the other side of the world, living in great town (brilliant weather, loads of things to do, good quality of life) on a salary that in pounds would be six figures (based on his salary history when together and his current job title).

After they divorced, he disappeared saying divorce means he's not a dad any more!

He's never paid child support. Friend has been financially struggling with two kids to support alone.

When I was a child, 40 years ago, my father fucked off abroad and paid some child support, if end when he decided he felt like it. My mother struggled massively.

Why is not ensuring that your children are fed, housed and clothed AT A MINIMUM, not considered child neglect? Never mind the fact that disappearing and ignoring your children is the definition of emotional neglect!

The issue is always about the mothers (or resident parent) struggling, and they do and it's not fair. But from the child's perspective, if the mother (resident parent) decided to behave in the same way as the father, she'd most likely end up prosecuted for neglect.

I know I'm suggesting it's mainly men who do the fucking off and I do recognise that some women do, but in every case bar one that I've come across, it's been the father.

AIBU to think in 40 years (plus) this should have been resolved by now? Why is neglect not neglect if a father does it? Why can resident parents not move abroad with their children because The Hague Convention will see them charged with kidnapping if the non-resident parent goes to the police (I agree with this btw), but a father actively neglecting his children, is free to carry on?

I'm sure someone will say that women are responsible for who they have children with. I'd suggest that a great many women don't have children with men they believe will neglect their children's basic needs.

[dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]

I think the non paying parent building up a debt that shows on a credit file is a good idea too. Although suggesting the parent raising the child builds a debt too is just bonkers!
I think a suite of measures should be employed so these deadbeat (mainly dads) don't get away with it so easily. If someone is genuinely ill or unemployed through no fault of their own I am sympathetic but more often than not they are fiddling their official income, moving from job to job of just ignoring the CMS. Many mothers don't have the time or energy to hold the CMS to account and I'm afraid the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

[Theunamedcat]

The reason child maintenance is so toothless is because nrp killed themselves in a few high profile cases there was a huge outcry and nothing has been enforced since

[Benelovencd]

I wish non- payment for 3 months or more (excluding those who are ill or unemployed ) resulted in criminal charges and a custodial sentence, along with loss of PR but not their financial liability.

You are right, a resident parents would be prosecuted for neglect and so should NRP. It shouldn't be adjusted downwards because you remarry and have step-DC or choose to have more DC you cannot afford when you have an existing DC whose needs are not being met.

Criminalise this behaviour. Miss a month and your pay gets docked directly and 5his is arranged with your employer and not you. Make people think twice about how their actions will affect their career, freedom and standing in the community.

[WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo]

@Theunamedcat

The reason child maintenance is so toothless is because nrp killed themselves in a few high profile cases there was a huge outcry and nothing has been enforced since

I still think the CMS is a national disgrace but I can kind of see why if that's true.
I wonder how many mums have been driven close or actually to suicide though due to the mental and financial toll of doing everything alone.

[StoneofDestiny]

Well, if you look on mumsnet often enough there are many Mumsnetters who don't think defrauding the benefits system is wrong, nor should it be reported. Small wonder there some fathers who obviously take that view too and think somebody else should bail out their fecklessness.

[aquashiv]

Just another example of societies prejudice against mainly females.

[Theunamedcat]

If you read the opposite side to this argument uou get the figure if 75,000 nrp a year committed suicide due to being forced to pay child support they couldn't afford i don't believe thst figure because surely someone would notice but on the website i looked at there are some stories shared and they seem accurate for the level of incompetence things such as taking the wrong job into account when people change from "working" to self employed cmo still use the working salary to work out what's owed refusal to recognise a new baby in the family etc etc

There are also ones where the man is kicking off saying his ex wife is living it up on "his" money one even claimed to have "paid for" her wedding 🙄

[WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo]

75000 suicides per year because they've been forced to pay maintenance? That's more than than the average annual number of suicides for the whole of the UK (5691 in 2019)
Whatever website you found that on seems to exaggerate somewhat!

[NeverDropYourMoonCup]

@IamtheDevilsAvocado

I think it ought to be tied to driving licenses & employment... You need a certificate to say all your child maintenance has been paid promptly and fully.

I would not want to employ someone who was very neglectful of their children

How do they pay maintenance if you won't employ them?

[sandgrown]

@wanteddeadoralive18 if the employer is obstructing payment there is a process for CMS to prosecute them which in normal circumstances might include a visit to their premises but it takes a while.

[Mypathtriedtokillme]

If it makes you feel better it sometimes does catch up with them.
My father had to back pay 16 years of child support (which was a grand total of $35 a week for 3 children because he hid his companies income) with 35 years compound interest and fines.
My sisters and told mum to use it for something nice as she had supported us alone our whole childhood.

[Dontfuckingsaycheese]

No it's fine. Don't worry. We're still living off the one and only £5 my son's "father" gave us 8 years ago...

[Theunamedcat]

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

75000 suicides per year because they've been forced to pay maintenance? That's more than than the average annual number of suicides for the whole of the UK (5691 in 2019)
Whatever website you found that on seems to exaggerate somewhat!

I agree i think they are taking a figure from somewhere and implying its yearly (or ive misread which as it was 5am is entirely possible) there are some strange stories out there a man paying child support owed to his ex wife's widow because she has died and he still owed his children are almost thirty but he has arrears he doesn't even know if the kids are getting the money or not apparently "everyone" agrees its wrong but he is still forced to pay logically I assume he is paying because the stepdad picked up the financial slack over the years due to his non payment and its money owed to the estate

Others are they are taking £300 per month off me leaving me with £297 a week to live on the (deliberate?) Switch between monthly and weekly implies he is worse off than he really is

There is a woman on there too victim of domestic violence lost her children to him is now struggling to pay

The entire system needs redoing something which they were supposed to do and really didn't

[newnortherner111]

Do you really think it will be a priority with this current Prime Minister?

[Putdownthecake]

I don't agree with it at all but one argument I often see on here is about well she gets the benefits. If that's 2 kids, £140 child benefit and not sure what UC is? 230 each? Either way about 600 so the nrp sees it as the mother getting enough/not supporting the children as its not 'her' money. Again this is a terrible argument but its one I often see that I think is behind some nrp thinking.

I do think more nrp would pay though if it was on net income. Say for example you earn 1500, 300 would be on tax, national insurance, you'd be left with 1200 yet for 2 kids 20% of gross would be another 300, leaving 900 to house your kids and everything else a month. I appreciate 300 for 2 kids isn't a lot but in the scheme of things. Why is it not calculated on net? Excuse my ignorance as very fortunate this hasn't effected me but I have many single mum and one single dad friends who unfortunately have been. Altho the single dad is currently fighting to be awarded the child benefit. The mum hasn't seen the child in 2 years.

[daretodenim]

@newnortherner111

Do you really think it will be a priority with this current Prime Minister?

I think it could be a very interesting subject for an investigative journalist, given that he's vague over the number of children he has!

[skirk64]

Why is it not neglect? If I don't feed or clothe my children, it would be neglect. It's my duty as a parent.

The child is only neglected if they don't receive clothing or food. Usually the resident parent will provide this even without any support from the NRP, and will seek help from authorities if they are truly unable to provide the basic necessities for the child. If the child isn't neglected, the NRP isn't guilty of neglect.

I can see even less argument against the idea that it's emotional neglect. What is the name for not having contact (from your own choice) with your kids? Human babies and children need social and emotional interaction in order to develop. If you as a parent provide none of that, what are you doing?

Yes partly I agree with you on that, children who don't have both parents around are automatically emotionally neglected - no single parent is able to provide the same level of love and care as two parents together are. However, a lot of the damage has already been done by the fact the couple are separated. It doesn't matter if the child lives with a loving mother and the NRP is equally loving and only lives half a mile away - both parents are guilty of allowing their child to be emotionally neglected by simple fact of not living together in a loving relationship themselves.

[Theunamedcat]

My ex pays £7 a week for two children and bitches about it he claims UC but regularly does cash in hand work and "runs his own business" (without telling hmrc or universal credit) recently my son has been making noises about living with dad he said you will pay the full amount of child support right mom? I said yes but your brother will never go so they will make a nil assessment having one child each (I believe in being honest with him) ahh dad wouldn't like that he needs money......I cant fathom the conversation would it go son i need cash move in with me?

[YouCantBeSadHoldingACupcake]

@Theunamedcat

My ex pays £7 a week for two children and bitches about it he claims UC but regularly does cash in hand work and "runs his own business" (without telling hmrc or universal credit) recently my son has been making noises about living with dad he said you will pay the full amount of child support right mom? I said yes but your brother will never go so they will make a nil assessment having one child each (I believe in being honest with him) ahh dad wouldn't like that he needs money......I cant fathom the conversation would it go son i need cash move in with me?

It isn't true they will automatically make a nil assessment. My step dad was the resident parent for 2 of his 3 children, the youngest stayed with their mother (all had the same mother). He still had to pay maintenance for the one living with his ex. She was supposed to pay maintenance for the 2 living with stepdad, but as she was on benefits it was pretty much nothing.

[WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo]

The child is only neglected if they don't receive clothing or food. Usually the resident parent will provide this even without any support from the NRP, and will seek help from authorities if they are truly unable to provide the basic necessities for the child. If the child isn't neglected, the NRP isn't guilty of neglect.

Definition of neglect is "failure to provide" so how is an NRP who refuses to pay/feed/clothe their child not guilty of neglect?

The child may ultimately not be neglected, but only because the RP has made sure they have everything.

Yes partly I agree with you on that, children who don't have both parents around are automatically emotionally neglected what a load of bollocks.

[Mumof1andacat]

Nothing changes. My friend is 40. Her dad left when she as 12. She had her 2 older sisters at home. They were 14 and 15 at the time. Her mum was stay at home parent when he left. Hes paid the grand total of £10 to her mum since he left. Never seen her or sisters since.

[DynamoKev]

@Theunamedcat

The reason child maintenance is so toothless is because nrp killed themselves in a few high profile cases there was a huge outcry and nothing has been enforced since

Is this true?

[forinborin]

I don't agree with it at all but one argument I often see on here is about well she gets the benefits. If that's 2 kids, £140 child benefit and not sure what UC is? 230 each? Either way about 600 so the nrp sees it as the mother getting enough/not supporting the children as its not 'her' money. Again this is a terrible argument but its one I often see that I think is behind some nrp thinking.
Many of resident mothers don't get any benefits at all, not even child benefit.
That what shocks me in the current mindset here in Britain. If a woman has children, and later becomes a single mother (obviously, only through her own fault, what else could it be), she EITHER has to rely on the generosity of the state, OR expect her ex to support her and the children. In both cases she must budget only for bare necessities, and there's absolutely no excesses allowed.

In the situation where the mother actually has a career and a decent earning capacity, it is automatically assumed that she should be paying for everything herself.

I was torn to pieces here on MN several times when admitting that I am chasing child maintenance from the father while earning well myself, and my children have extra curricular activities that I expect to spend the maintenance on. Didn't I know that music lessons are optional! How dare I expect the father to contribute towards them! Did I check my own budget to see if I can find excesses there before asking the father for his pennies! The mind boggles.

[LaceyBetty]

I agree. I think it is outrageous and would also compare it to neglect. What if the other parent just walked away too?

I also despair when some people think others are "lucky" and should be thankful for getting any amount from the nrp. A child should fully benefit from the income of their parents. If the nrp is a high earner, the child should benefit from that as if they lived with their parent. I often see arguments that (usually fathers) are some kind of saints for sending over a few hundred quid because children aren't "that expensive". If the nrp is wealthy, the child need to also benefit from that wealth.

[DeadlyMedally]

I say this as a child raised by a single parent, but you can't add and enforce greater responsibilities without adding and enforcing greater rights.
I do think that people should be forced to pay for their children, but I think it's difficult to do that without actively making things worse than they are for women (i.e. strongly incentivising them not to leave relationships).