To not be able to believe what I'm reading

[Butwasitherdriveway]

Had a leaflet through my door......

I'm lost for words.

It's bonkers but I don't really see why they shouldn't be allowed to express those views. As many of you have said, it has already gone straight in the bin, it won't gain any traction.

Remember Nick BNP Griffin on Question Time a few years ago? People said he should be allowed a platform, but when these views are actually aired and people see how batshit they are, then they die a death anyway. Which is exactly what happened to the BNP after that QT appearance.

The more you try and silence people, tell them they are wrong, tell them they are evil, that is when you get problems. There is nothing on that leaflet that incites violence.

@Bambam2019

I cannot possibly understand how anybody could be against abortion. Women don’t always get pregnant through choice. What happens to the children that are born when they aren’t wanted? Care? Abusive/neglectful homes? That is the story for many! If you do not support abortion you cannot claim to be “pro life” just “anti choice”. God I don’t agree with a single point on this leaflet. (And they ARE dangerous)

Im pro-choice because Im realistic about the messiness of life and the fact that on balance, it's better that children who might be unwanted or whose parents feel unable to raise them are not born in the first place. But I can totally understand how someone could be anti-abortion. For some people, it literally is taking an innocent life and they cannot agree with that under any circumstances. I might not agree with them but I think their position is entirely understandable within their frame of reference which is different to yours obviously

Do you see how spiteful it is to use the 🤷‍♀️ and ☕️ emojis in response to people saying they find your views on rape victims having abortions upsetting?
No, I didn’t.

I didn’t and don’t intend to offend anybody.
I never, ever speak about abortion if asked because it offends and upsets the majority of people and believe it or not I do not set out or try to offend or upset people.

In my years on here this is only the second thread I have ever voiced my stance and even on here, I repeatedly said I was sorry that it offends others but my view is my view.
I am entitled to voice my opinion, however offensive some may find it.

I have in the past, in ‘real life’ discussed my views when people have asked but it very quickly upsets people and descends into an aggressive attack with assumptions that not only entirely inaccurate but also really upsetting.
Assumptions that have surfaced, as they always do, in this thread.

I certainly did not intend to come across spiteful or uncaring or however else.
As I said, rape is a horrific, abhorrent thing and my stance on abortion does not mean I am in anyway unsympathetic to victims of rape and sexual abuse. Quite the opposite.

Diddly doesn't care about that
You don’t know fuck all about me or what I do and don’t care about.

All you know is i happen to be anti abortion and as per usual, as is always the case with abortion, use it to cook up all sorts of wildly inaccurate assumptions about those who are anti abortion just because you don’t agree with them.

my stance on abortion does not mean I am in anyway unsympathetic to victims of rape and sexual abuse

But I'm afraid that's exactly what it means. I wonder whether you would have the guts to tell a traumatised, pregnant teenaged rape victim to her face that you think she should carry the baby to full term.

I have no patience with religious zealots or any other flavour of bigot.

@DiddlyWiddly

I certainly did not intend to come across spiteful or uncaring or however else.

It wasn't even your beliefs, it was the flippancy of using emojis usually reserved for joking around / 'meh' responses when discussing rape.

Your post just now was very, very 'I'm sorry if you felt that...' when it would have been decent to say 'I'm sorry I used those when discussing the topic of rape, it was wrong of me' or similar.

I find it disappointing you didn't apologise using them, but somewhat ironically I would support your right to not be compelled to because I believe in your right to express yourself.

Just looked at the party’s Facebook page, and may have added a comment questioning one of the points...

well now you don't get free papers you should save this
To tear up & use for paper mache

I am also anti abortion and anti bullying too.

Because a crime, however awful, is committed against you, it doesn't give you the right to murder. Crime does not justify crime.

It’s clear just from reading the leaflet that it’s very unlikely indeed that this party or any of its supporters is interested in academic rigour.

@Crystal90567

I am also anti abortion and anti bullying too.

Because a crime, however awful, is committed against you, it doesn't give you the right to murder. Crime does not justify crime.

If someone had a gun to your child's head and you could stop them shooting your child by shooting them, would you do it?

FFS

@sadpapercourtesan

my stance on abortion does not mean I am in anyway unsympathetic to victims of rape and sexual abuse

But I'm afraid that's exactly what it means. I wonder whether you would have the guts to tell a traumatised, pregnant teenaged rape victim to her face that you think she should carry the baby to full term.

I have no patience with religious zealots or any other flavour of bigot.

That’s how I see it too. I see this kind of post and I see my teenage family member who was raped and I think... if you believe she should have been forced to give birth nine months after everything else that man put her through, then clearly you have a very peculiar idea of morality.

It wasn't even your beliefs, it was the flippancy of using emojis usually reserved for joking around / 'meh' responses when discussing rape
I don’t think I actually did..
But I will go back and re read.
The tea one was after I said to the OP that I didn’t understand why people got so angry with people who are anti abortion when they know the world is moving towards abortion, not against it.
The countries that have abortion already are almost certainly never going to go the other way and ban it so I don’t really understand why people get so outraged.

Your post just now was very, very 'I'm sorry if you felt that...' when it would have been decent to say 'I'm sorry I used those when discussing the topic of rape, it was wrong of me' or similar
It was never my intention to upset anyone and I certainly wasn’t trying to minimise or make a joke out of rape.
I would have to go back and re read, which I will, but I’m fairly sure I didn’t actually use the emojis when discussing rape specifically.

Sorry courtesan I should have made it clearer that I was objecting to Diddly’s perspective, not yours.

@Crystal90567

I am also anti abortion and anti bullying too.

Because a crime, however awful, is committed against you, it doesn't give you the right to murder. Crime does not justify crime.

Morals are all well and good but given there is someone on this thread who has already spoken very bravely about being raped, this isn't hypothetical, and could you please stop?

@DiddlyWiddly

It wasn't even your beliefs, it was the flippancy of using emojis usually reserved for joking around / 'meh' responses when discussing rape I don’t think I actually did.. But I will go back and re read. The tea one was after I said to the OP that I didn’t understand why people got so angry with people who are anti abortion when they know the world is moving towards abortion, not against it. The countries that have abortion already are almost certainly never going to go the other way and ban it so I don’t really understand why people get so outraged.

Your post just now was very, very 'I'm sorry if you felt that...' when it would have been decent to say 'I'm sorry I used those when discussing the topic of rape, it was wrong of me' or similar
It was never my intention to upset anyone and I certainly wasn’t trying to minimise or make a joke out of rape.
I would have to go back and re read, which I will, but I’m fairly sure I didn’t actually use the emojis when discussing rape specifically.

You have upset her. Just stop while you're ahead.

We get your point..
We get outraged at your disgusting comments towards real life survivors.

We got one a week or so ago but a friend from Aberdeen posted a picture of it a while back.
Their posts on women and men working actually make me quite angry. I held my family together financially during covid and DH was there 100% for DS so I could work weird hours and long days. It's something I'm proud of and that has sweet fuck all to do with my vagina.

@DiddlyWiddly

Do you see how spiteful it is to use the 🤷‍♀️ and ☕️ emojis in response to people saying they find your views on rape victims having abortions upsetting? No, I didn’t.

I didn’t and don’t intend to offend anybody.
I never, ever speak about abortion if asked because it offends and upsets the majority of people and believe it or not I do not set out or try to offend or upset people.

In my years on here this is only the second thread I have ever voiced my stance and even on here, I repeatedly said I was sorry that it offends others but my view is my view.
I am entitled to voice my opinion, however offensive some may find it.

I have in the past, in ‘real life’ discussed my views when people have asked but it very quickly upsets people and descends into an aggressive attack with assumptions that not only entirely inaccurate but also really upsetting.
Assumptions that have surfaced, as they always do, in this thread.

I certainly did not intend to come across spiteful or uncaring or however else.
As I said, rape is a horrific, abhorrent thing and my stance on abortion does not mean I am in anyway unsympathetic to victims of rape and sexual abuse. Quite the opposite.

Diddly doesn't care about that
You don’t know fuck all about me or what I do and don’t care about.

All you know is i happen to be anti abortion and as per usual, as is always the case with abortion, use it to cook up all sorts of wildly inaccurate assumptions about those who are anti abortion just because you don’t agree with them.

Well you don't care about the woman on this thread who has been brave about her experience and you are still playing semantics with her.

@Mylittlesandwich

We got one a week or so ago but a friend from Aberdeen posted a picture of it a while back. Their posts on women and men working actually make me quite angry. I held my family together financially during covid and DH was there 100% for DS so I could work weird hours and long days. It's something I'm proud of and that has sweet fuck all to do with my vagina.

👏👏😁😁😁😁

@MissTrip82

It’s clear just from reading the leaflet that it’s very unlikely indeed that this party or any of its supporters is interested in academic rigour.

Or 'good behaviour '

Speaking as an Englishman, if this lot form the next Scots Govt. forget Indyref2, you'll be booted out of the Union!

As @Butwasitherdriveway can attest to I try to be really patient and explain things carefully on here, even when I vehemently disagree with someone.

But @DiddlyWiddly you aren't getting it, at all. The impact of your words and tone matter, not just your intent. It is decent to acknowledge an impact you have.

The countries that have abortion already are almost certainly never going to go the other way and ban it so I don’t really understand why people get so outraged.

It's called empathy, I don't only care about my bodily autonomy when it comes to this topic, or that of women in a country I happen to live under the laws of, I care about that of all women. Everywhere.

I am "outraged" that in many places women are vilified and forced to carry and deliver children even as a result of rape. And I am "outraged" that another poster (not you) most likely living in the UK / America / Australia just called me a murderer for not doing so. It isn't just the law that matters in this nuanced debate.

A sorry can go a long way when it comes to the impact of your words. I feel sorry for you that you weren't gracious enough to recognise that impact and apologise for it. But as I say, I would ironically fight for your right to express yourself despite being so disappointed in your response.

The only one I agree with is the trans ideology. I disagree with every single one of the others.

A family can be anything. Humans are the building blocks of society.

Preventing sex education does not protect children at all, in fact, it harms them and a lack of education can lead to pregnancy and STIs like HIV/AIDS.

I am not sure what they mean by 'academic rigour' or how they can demand "good behaviour in schools". And I'm not sure I want to know where that is headed.

There is no such thing as free speech without consequence. There is no such thing as unfettered free speech, there never has been. If you are against rules against hate speech, you are saying you approve of racist, abusive and nasty behaviour and that contradicts the "good behaviour in schools" platform because anti hate speech legislation is about creating good behaviour in society. Take away hate speech legislation, you create a society where bad behaviour flourishes.

If you oppose abortion on demand, you are saying you believe a woman has no agency, and has less human rights than a corpse. You believe a woman should be subject to Incubatorial Slavery. That we, as born, actual, real humans - have no human rights and must risk our health in pregnancy and life in childbirth (incidentally, abortion is 14 times safer than childbirth), on an over-populated planet. Euthanasia should likewise be a human right as it goes to agency. To suggest a person suffer is imo sick and cruel. We don't let a dog suffer if it's in pain.

I think childless families should get benefits for not over-populating the planet and being a strain on our resources.

I agree with marriage but I suspect their idea of marriage is only the hetero type.

As a woman, I feel extremely strongly about trans and what it means for vulnerable women and girls, but I won't go on about it or else I won't shut up about it.

So 28% of MN'ers are for this? Gross, so gross.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

As *@Butwasitherdriveway* can attest to I try to be really patient and explain things carefully on here, even when I vehemently disagree with someone.

But @DiddlyWiddly you aren't getting it, at all. The impact of your words and tone matter, not just your intent. It is decent to acknowledge an impact you have.

The countries that have abortion already are almost certainly never going to go the other way and ban it so I don’t really understand why people get so outraged.

It's called empathy, I don't only care about my bodily autonomy when it comes to this topic, or that of women in a country I happen to live under the laws of, I care about that of all women. Everywhere.

I am "outraged" that in many places women are vilified and forced to carry and deliver children even as a result of rape. And I am "outraged" that another poster (not you) most likely living in the UK / America / Australia just called me a murderer for not doing so. It isn't just the law that matters in this nuanced debate.

A sorry can go a long way when it comes to the impact of your words. I feel sorry for you that you weren't gracious enough to recognise that impact and apologise for it. But as I say, I would ironically fight for your right to express yourself despite being so disappointed in your response.

Bless you lynn.

Your grace and dignity in showing someone the respect and understanding they haven't shown you is truly amazing.