To not be able to believe what I'm reading

[Butwasitherdriveway]

Had a leaflet through my door......

I'm lost for words.

I'm with you OP - I can't believe what I'm reading either.

@Butwasitherdriveway

I don't want to derail too much, but I find the abortion topic ironic.

These people who care so much about life that they want to force someone to have a child into a situation where the child is not going to have a good life, or fling them in the care system.

Yep.

The baby must be born, sod the mum and her feelings and health. But once the baby is born unless they’re in a family with married parents who have a stable income they’re scum and a threat to families.

"Among other things, not showing anything in school that young people under eighteen would be protected from seeing elsewhere."

Ah yes.

This world. The one where children wait until 0.01 on their 18th birthday to have sex.

There is always going to be some extreme loons who will vote for this. But they will be beyond a tiny minority, they won’t get anyone voted in, guaranteed. But it’s shocking there are people like this out there and shocking that people agree with them. But there is enough good people to put a stop to them,

@SimonJT Quite.

So not only are we not going to bother teaching youngsters about sex ed, we are going to stop them being able to make their own choices, make them have a child they don't want.

Marvellous. What a fantastic idea. Can't see where that would go wrong.

I don’t think my 8 year old needs to know about sexual intercourse right now but he is going to be taught it next week in school.

I really am curious as to why not? Is it the particular content you’re aware he’ll be taught, would there be a level of knowledge you would be ok with? Or is it more an issue of feeling like it’s not something to be taught at school, but at home?

@Gingernaut

What?

No Heritage Party propaganda?

Wow

This is the problem with the current ongoing debate re trans and sex and all of that -

people have decided that we are sitting children down and making them watch 90 mins of adults just having sex.

I don't know where people get this from.

I saw on a thread the other day a load of unsubstantiated nonsense about what we are teaching the kids. Yet nobody seems able to actually tell me what is wrong with the PSE curriculum (even though that 'they're too young') at 11, despite the fact we know that although many are, some are not.

Yep! Got one through our door and DH reckons he saw an old couple doing the rounds on our street at the same time posting the leaflets. It's...pretty terrifying.

[quote OnTheBrink1]@Ostryga where does any of those points on the leaflet say that?

I don’t agree with abortion except in extreme circumstances no.
I think that marriage is important and has worth before you have children
I think that one parent should be at home with their child especially in the baby and pre school years.
I don’t think my 8 year old needs to know about sexual intercourse right now but he is going to be taught it next week in school. I could opt out but that would make him noticed, embarrassed and excluded in front of the whole class.[/quote]
You are doing your child a massive disservice. Dd is 4 and knows the anatomically correct names for vagina/vulva/labia/penis etc. It is the biggest thing I can do to protect her from sexual abuse as much in my power. She knows how babies are made (in age appropriate language) where babies come from, what periods are etc.

You are making these things a huge taboo by not talking about them and pretending they only happen to grown ups. And that’s really sad for your children. Who will no doubt learn it from kids in school, have no idea what it means and make up stuff because they don’t understand.

On the other points, I can’t help you if you don’t understand how horrific these ‘policies’ are for women.

I would say thank goodness hardly anyone would vote for them but I couldn't be so certain about that, these days.

@ColourMeExhausted

Yep! Got one through our door and DH reckons he saw an old couple doing the rounds on our street at the same time posting the leaflets. It's...pretty terrifying.

I'm offended on their behalf - where's granny on their wee picture/ There's only grandad.

I read their manifesto and was still ranting about it two days later. I lot of it reads like the founder's own personal wishlist - as well as scrapping equal pay as quoted above, government should make cars more affordable because big families need them, planning permission for extensions for big families should be automatically granted, teachers should concentrate most on brightest children, children shouldn't be diagnosed as having special needs, people without children should pay higher taxes to support big families, etc etc

Abortion on demand does not exist in the UK. Extreme right wing arseholes like this always seem to want to control wombs as a priority. The rest of it is mainly mysogynst crap, with a dose of enforced ignorance thrown in. Don't put the letters in the recycle, send it back to the organisation address with no stamp.
.

@Gingernaut

What?

No Heritage Party propaganda?

That was quite a fun read.

I’m impressed that they will hugely increase funding for education, healthcare and benefits for married couples, yet they’re going to hugely slash all taxes. Maths is not their strong point.

Every single political leaflet goes straight into the recycling here. This is no exception

Yuck, that's right up there with some of the rubbish that Jehovah's witnesses have knocked on my door to tell me.

Oh and the manifesto contains a long list of organisations that the sfp believe should receive no public money, including such dangerous bodies as the Scottish book Trust....

They have 0 MSPs at present.

After the elections they will still have 0 MSPs.

They are a fringe party with extreme beliefs.

Generations ago, people stayed and people "give up more easily" - IE, they stayed with partners they knew were gay, they stayed with partners they didn't love, they stayed wiht partners that battered them
This is true, but equally, there are people who don’t really try and work through anything and break up not thinking through the impact on the children.

I'm not cheerleading divorce but I absolutely do feel that children who live in households with unhappy marriages are far more traumatised than those who make a decision and leave. We should not be teaching our children they have to stay
I think you are twisting my words a little there.

If you don't believe married people are better or that single people are nothing, wny would you support a party who wants to pay people who are married and stay at home?
Based off the leaflet I thought they sounded reasonable bar the hate speech and sex education.
Reading deeper they clearly want a complete removal of rights for women and there appears to be an suggestion of white supremacy and homophobia.
I do not support the party.

We will never agree on your abortion stance
Not many people do and I think it’s highly, highly unlikely countries that currently allow abortion will ban it so I really wouldn’t stress yourself.

I find the fact that anyone finds it apt to dictate to someone when they can and can't make a decision on whether they want to have a family appalling
Depends on your viewpoint of what constitutes a life.
I don’t consider a pregnancy past about 6 weeks to be a mere ball of cells, I consider it be a baby and I consider ending the life of that baby abhorrent.

So a rape victim should be forced to carry her rapist’s child to term? Or somebody who’s told her child will be severely disabled should have their choices removed?
Rape is a horrific thing, I am disgusted that society has done such a poor job in teaching men to respect women and I am disgusted rape is punished so leniently.
I have a great deal of sympathy for rape victims but I’m sorry but I also have sympathy for the child that never asked to be conceived.
Disability, I would argue that you should love the child you are given not that you wanted, doctors can and do get it wrong sometimes and it isn’t anyone’s right to take away the life of another.
I don’t agree with abortion.
I have heard all the arguments before, I am anti abortion.
I’m sorry that that offends people but that is my opinion 🤷‍♀️

I do t think any UKIP MPs actually won an election - but they still managed to shift the political narrative. I wouldn't be too complaisant - a lot of people would secretly like women put back in our boxes, think gays are 'flaunting' their sexuality, and that a good smack never did them any harm. All rights are hard won and require constant vigilance to maintain.

YANBU
Scary

@DiddlyWiddly

Generations ago, people stayed and people "give up more easily" - IE, they stayed with partners they knew were gay, they stayed with partners they didn't love, they stayed wiht partners that battered them This is true, but equally, there are people who don’t really try and work through anything and break up not thinking through the impact on the children.

I'm not cheerleading divorce but I absolutely do feel that children who live in households with unhappy marriages are far more traumatised than those who make a decision and leave. We should not be teaching our children they have to stay
I think you are twisting my words a little there.

If you don't believe married people are better or that single people are nothing, wny would you support a party who wants to pay people who are married and stay at home?
Based off the leaflet I thought they sounded reasonable bar the hate speech and sex education.
Reading deeper they clearly want a complete removal of rights for women and there appears to be an suggestion of white supremacy and homophobia.
I do not support the party.

We will never agree on your abortion stance
Not many people do and I think it’s highly, highly unlikely countries that currently allow abortion will ban it so I really wouldn’t stress yourself.

I find the fact that anyone finds it apt to dictate to someone when they can and can't make a decision on whether they want to have a family appalling
Depends on your viewpoint of what constitutes a life.
I don’t consider a pregnancy past about 6 weeks to be a mere ball of cells, I consider it be a baby and I consider ending the life of that baby abhorrent.

So a rape victim should be forced to carry her rapist’s child to term? Or somebody who’s told her child will be severely disabled should have their choices removed?
Rape is a horrific thing, I am disgusted that society has done such a poor job in teaching men to respect women and I am disgusted rape is punished so leniently.
I have a great deal of sympathy for rape victims but I’m sorry but I also have sympathy for the child that never asked to be conceived.
Disability, I would argue that you should love the child you are given not that you wanted, doctors can and do get it wrong sometimes and it isn’t anyone’s right to take away the life of another.
I don’t agree with abortion.
I have heard all the arguments before, I am anti abortion.
I’m sorry that that offends people but that is my opinion 🤷‍♀️

But that's their choice to not work through it. Not your business. Statistically children are far less affected by divorce .

I am absolutely lost for words at the rest of your post. So you think women should bring up children as a result of rape and seriously disabled children because you've decided they should.

Wow.

@Bvop

I’m not sure I agree these are dangerous beliefs. Not particularly palatable, but it doesn’t tend to be beliefs that are dangerous, but behaviours.

Someone can believe that abortion is sinful and choose to avoid it for themselves, but if they’re not harrassing women outside abortion clinics then is their belief really dangerous?

Again, I don’t share their beliefs but I’m glad I live in a country where it’s okay to set up a political party with views that challenge the status quo and have them peacefully tested at the ballot box.

^ This. Especially "I'm glad I live in a country where it's okay to set up a political party with views that challenge the status quo and have them peacefully tested at the ballot box"

And this thread is bonkers. People's definitions of words like dangerous have shifted wildly. Which ironically is what allows parties like this one to thrive! Also funny how many people think their particular brand of intolerance is reasonable. It's behind me how some people can't see that normalising intolerance and shutting down of the "wrong" views is precisely what leads to dictatorship and tyranny. Making it OK to silence things you disagree with quickly becomes a problem for you if that is suddenly flipped and applied to things you agree with...

I'd rather live somewhere where batshit ideas are allowed to be spoken and therefore laughed at.

I cannot possibly understand how anybody could be against abortion.
Women don’t always get pregnant through choice.
What happens to the children that are born when they aren’t wanted? Care? Abusive/neglectful homes? That is the story for many!
If you do not support abortion you cannot claim to be “pro life” just “anti choice”.
God I don’t agree with a single point on this leaflet.
(And they ARE dangerous)