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To not be able to believe what I'm reading

616 replies

Butwasitherdriveway · 26/04/2021 20:21

Had a leaflet through my door......

I'm lost for words.

To not be able to believe what I'm reading
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Crystal90567 · 27/04/2021 18:21

Me too

CokeDrinker · 27/04/2021 18:22

@Crystal90567

Ah the classic 'people will not think you are a decent person' threat. Dont you know how much people hate that restriction. The thought policing is off the wall.

My core values and beliefs... the protection of innocents / babies, free speech, free democratic debate, the ability to leave an undemocratic overpriced club if we wish to, feminism, the right of women to pull and shag men when they are drunk, flirting...oh how sad I am that flirting is now banned...are more important than being included by people who I increasingly despise, alongside my increasing fear of them, and their thought policing.

Since when have 'innocents' (whatever that refers to) or babies had anything to do with this?

And why do you assume that only women flirt and get drunk and shag? I bet you think it's ok for men to flirt, get drunk and shag women....hence the misogyny.

Crystal90567 · 27/04/2021 19:28

I think it's ok for men and women to flirt get drunk and shag people.
In the 90s it was ok for women to flirt, get drunk and shag men. This is now not allowed. I shagged plenty of men while blind drunk and look back very fondly on my youth.

Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 19:40

Crystal what on earth are you talking about?

As an aside, I think the vast majority of people want to be a decent person. It's unusual to not want to be

That aside I can't make head nor tail of the rest of your post.

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Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 19:41

@Crystal90567

I think it's ok for men and women to flirt get drunk and shag people. In the 90s it was ok for women to flirt, get drunk and shag men. This is now not allowed. I shagged plenty of men while blind drunk and look back very fondly on my youth.
Yes we got that.

When did it become not allowed?

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Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 19:42

[quote toconclude]@Butwasitherdriveway
Let me guess, since this is MN, bottom right hand corner?[/quote]
Not too sure what you're asking

I don't oppose transgender though.

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Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 19:43

@CokeDrinker

What's that got to do with domestic abuse?

OP posts:
eatsleepread · 27/04/2021 19:44

I'm Scottish and had never heard of them!

Mookie81 · 27/04/2021 19:55

@Butwasitherdriveway this isn't about right or wrong, it's an opinion. My opinion is that you're a bully, your opinion is different.
We will agree to disagree, which is what should happen with most debates.

ChairmansReserve · 27/04/2021 19:58

I missed a few pages. Has @Quaagars retracted their lie about gender critical posters supporting this horrendous manifesto?

Or are they evading and ignoring it?

Ostryga · 27/04/2021 20:00

@ChairmansReserve

I missed a few pages. Has *@Quaagars* retracted their lie about gender critical posters supporting this horrendous manifesto?

Or are they evading and ignoring it?

Would also like to know this!
ImperfectTents · 27/04/2021 20:04

Between this lot, the freedom alliance and Alba, Scotland’s fringe political landscape is looking mental

Quaagars · 27/04/2021 20:05

@Crystal90567

I think it's ok for men and women to flirt get drunk and shag people. In the 90s it was ok for women to flirt, get drunk and shag men. This is now not allowed. I shagged plenty of men while blind drunk and look back very fondly on my youth.
Of course women are allowed to flirt, get drunk and shag men! It hasn't been banned or anything like Confused There'll always be people who think that they shouldn't be allowed, but people are therefore allowed to think they're being dicks for wanting to tell women what they can and can't do and what is 'acceptable behaviour'
SmokedDuck · 27/04/2021 20:40

This is clearly a fringe group, and one without a lot of messaging expertise.

Bt to be honest OP I think your attitude and impressions are far more dangerous than this group. The fact that you think every point they have made could never appeal to anyone suggests that you are in a pretty deep hole in terms of understanding what people think about issues or even what the issues are.

Many people have reservations about abortion on demand, and although the UK in general generally wants some form of legal abortion but have varying opinions about what that should look like. There isbn't carte blanch even now, it's not like there is late term abortion on demand which some think there should be.

And if you look into the study of ethics at an academic level in a philosophy department, this is not something considered obvious or simple. There are real and significant questions from a number of directions.

Euthanasia is extremely fraught in terms of all the ethical implications and how to manage them legally and opinions are very divided, and often not particularly corresponding with the political spectrum. Many people are very concerned about the trajectory of these kinds of laws in other countries and many doctors have concerns. There is a lot of opposition from groups representing the disabled.

There has been something of an upheaval of concern around the degree to which the state can override parental values in teaching of issues in schools, even among some who had previously felt comfortable with this. But there are clear difficulties in relation to secular states in a pluralistic nation looking to impart values in schools that some parents feel are controversial.

Many people feel that there has been a tendency for measures that eat away at the stability of families to be preferred in regulation and socially and this has contributed to certain problems, and there is some significant data that supports that. There are also many people who feel that the tendency to push all adults in to work has been bad for children and families generally. You might be surprised to find that many of them see that as a right-wing agenda.

All in all, while I suspect most will think this is a group of crackpots, if you really can't at all see the appeal of some of their talking points, I think that reflects more on the narrowness of your own positions.

SmokedDuck · 27/04/2021 20:42

Oh - and hate speech laws at the moment are getting a lot of criticism across the political spectrum, and that should be something anyone who is politically engaged should understand is a very complex issue.

Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 20:48

[quote Mookie81]@Butwasitherdriveway this isn't about right or wrong, it's an opinion. My opinion is that you're a bully, your opinion is different.
We will agree to disagree, which is what should happen with most debates.[/quote]
I can agree to disagree on any topic.

I certainly am not going to be absolutely fine with you calling me a bully.

OP posts:
Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 20:48

@ChairmansReserve

I missed a few pages. Has *@Quaagars* retracted their lie about gender critical posters supporting this horrendous manifesto?

Or are they evading and ignoring it?

Could you quote her lie?

You could try reading the pages, or asking her directly.

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Mookie81 · 27/04/2021 21:23

@Butwasitherdriveway oh well, never mind eh?

Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 21:25

[quote Mookie81]@Butwasitherdriveway oh well, never mind eh?[/quote]
Well, no, not never mind.

You can't just go around calling people bullies. You don't know me.

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DiddlyWiddly · 27/04/2021 21:29

Well, no, not never mind
You can't just go around calling people bullies. You don't know me
Interesting.
You don’t know me either but that didn’t stop you making some really quite awful (and entirely untrue) assumptions about me.

Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 21:32

@DiddlyWiddly

Well, no, not never mind You can't just go around calling people bullies. You don't know me Interesting. You don’t know me either but that didn’t stop you making some really quite awful (and entirely untrue) assumptions about me.
If you tell me what those assumptions were I'm happy to be corrected. You made your views clear. I suggested that the subject was dropped as the poster was upset and left the thread and messaged.me. Posters them arrived to tell me how dreadful I was for being so mean to you and said her.experience sharing was 'inappropriate' but didn't seem to give a monkeys about her. Incidentally, my comment wasn't to you so I'm not sure if needed your input.
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DiddlyWiddly · 27/04/2021 22:27

If you tell me what those assumptions were I'm happy to be corrected
First you claimed I thought single parents were ‘worth nothing’ and that I favoured married people, when I told you that wasn’t the case you then picked my anti abortion stance to label me:

  • someone who dictates to others when they can and can’t make a decision (by doing what exactly..?
I literally never talk to anyone re abortion)
  • someone who doesn’t care about others (absolute bollocks), you wrote ‘diddly doesnt about that’ and ‘she only cares about her views on what she has decided women should do’ in response to that posters comment.
A comment that I very deliberately had not answered because I had already made my viewpoint clear and did not want to repeat it in response to that poster because the way the comment was worded they had obviously gone through a dreadful, traumatic thing and I felt they would be very upset if I responded. But yes, I obviously don’t care at all Hmm That must be why I repeatedly reiterated that i didn’t intend to upset anyone when that poster then followed up saying they were offended by my use of two emojis.
  • That I don’t give a stuff for anyone’s feelings (untrue)
  • That I haven’t undergone any form of trauma (at least that is how I interpreted it and you know what? That is untrue too) as you wrote ‘lucky then for not having to have gone through those experiences’
  • not a decent person (I most definitely am a decent person)

You made your views clear
Yes I did.
My view that I personally see a developing pregnancy as a baby (note that I didn’t present that as ‘fact’, just that that is how I see it whereas others see it as a ball of cells or whatever) and that I therefore couldn’t agree with it no matter how awful the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy.

Posters them arrived to tell me how dreadful I was for being so mean to you
That is their opinion but I can tell you i very much felt under attack from you, and to a lesser extent that poster but more so you.

It is a very divisive subject and my opinion is the minority, I am aware of that and whenever I have been asked about the subject inevitably people don’t like what they hear and tend to get aggressive.
I do not therefore typically talk about my view on it.
Indeed, when I commented I was commenting about the party, not abortion.
Had it been an abortion thread I would not have commented.

I at no point insulted anyone (the same cannot be said for you) nor engaged in hate speech nor set out to upset anyone and when it was clear that poster was upset I reiterated many, many times that I absolutely did not intend to upset anyone and that I wasn’t minimising or joking about sexual abuse.

and said her.experience sharing was 'inappropriate'
That isn’t actually quite what they said.

didn't seem to give a monkeys about her
It’s a very rare woman that isn’t angered and horrified and sickened by sexual abuse (or any kind of violence) towards a fellow woman.
I think you are making incorrect assumptions again there.

Incidentally, my comment wasn't to you so I'm not sure if needed your input
That’s okay, I’ve given it to you anyway.

Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 22:46

@DiddlyWiddly

If you tell me what those assumptions were I'm happy to be corrected First you claimed I thought single parents were ‘worth nothing’ and that I favoured married people, when I told you that wasn’t the case you then picked my anti abortion stance to label me:
  • someone who dictates to others when they can and can’t make a decision (by doing what exactly..?
I literally never talk to anyone re abortion)
  • someone who doesn’t care about others (absolute bollocks), you wrote ‘diddly doesnt about that’ and ‘she only cares about her views on what she has decided women should do’ in response to that posters comment.
A comment that I very deliberately had not answered because I had already made my viewpoint clear and did not want to repeat it in response to that poster because the way the comment was worded they had obviously gone through a dreadful, traumatic thing and I felt they would be very upset if I responded. But yes, I obviously don’t care at all Hmm That must be why I repeatedly reiterated that i didn’t intend to upset anyone when that poster then followed up saying they were offended by my use of two emojis.
  • That I don’t give a stuff for anyone’s feelings (untrue)
  • That I haven’t undergone any form of trauma (at least that is how I interpreted it and you know what? That is untrue too) as you wrote ‘lucky then for not having to have gone through those experiences’
  • not a decent person (I most definitely am a decent person)

You made your views clear
Yes I did.
My view that I personally see a developing pregnancy as a baby (note that I didn’t present that as ‘fact’, just that that is how I see it whereas others see it as a ball of cells or whatever) and that I therefore couldn’t agree with it no matter how awful the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy.

Posters them arrived to tell me how dreadful I was for being so mean to you
That is their opinion but I can tell you i very much felt under attack from you, and to a lesser extent that poster but more so you.

It is a very divisive subject and my opinion is the minority, I am aware of that and whenever I have been asked about the subject inevitably people don’t like what they hear and tend to get aggressive.
I do not therefore typically talk about my view on it.
Indeed, when I commented I was commenting about the party, not abortion.
Had it been an abortion thread I would not have commented.

I at no point insulted anyone (the same cannot be said for you) nor engaged in hate speech nor set out to upset anyone and when it was clear that poster was upset I reiterated many, many times that I absolutely did not intend to upset anyone and that I wasn’t minimising or joking about sexual abuse.

and said her.experience sharing was 'inappropriate'
That isn’t actually quite what they said.

didn't seem to give a monkeys about her
It’s a very rare woman that isn’t angered and horrified and sickened by sexual abuse (or any kind of violence) towards a fellow woman.
I think you are making incorrect assumptions again there.

Incidentally, my comment wasn't to you so I'm not sure if needed your input
That’s okay, I’ve given it to you anyway.

Oh wow. A very self indulgent derail but il give it a bash.

No, when i said worth nothing, I didn't mean you. I never said you said that. I meant the leaflet implies that.

You are suggesting I was looking for reasons to get at you. Not true.

Well , wasn't it you who said the only okay grounds were life threatening? That is you dictating when it's okay no?

Mm, your follow up responses to Lynn were very much sorry but with a continuation

I haven't insulted anyone. I didn't like your behaviour towards Lynn but I stand by that.

They literally used the word inappropriate

My overall point is, you continued with your opinion to someone who you shouldn't have done. IMO

I wouldn't like to be accused of bullying you again, so we will just agree to disagree. Lynn won't be coming back anyway, so.

OP posts:
Mookie81 · 27/04/2021 23:55

Why do you keep naming Lynn? Is it to show everyone you know her personally? ConfusedHmm

Butwasitherdriveway · 27/04/2021 23:58

@Mookie81

Why do you keep naming Lynn? Is it to show everyone you know her personally? ConfusedHmm
No, it's to show that the debate/argument/whatever was never about me in the first place (since PP said that I personally had a problem with her views, I didnt) so I'd like to think we can move on.

That OK with you Mookie? You do like to pop up every so often to give your feedback.

OP posts: