To not be able to believe what I'm reading

[Butwasitherdriveway]

Had a leaflet through my door......

I'm lost for words.

Doesn't mean I can't be worried for where all this is going for others though

And yes, I am worried where the closing down of debate will lead to for others. .

Members of the Scottish National Party have been posting here on mumsnet and getting quite a lot of support.

@MrsIsobelCrawley

Members of the Scottish National Party have been posting here on mumsnet and getting quite a lot of support.

You might need to give us a few more clues than that!

Support for what? Actual card carrying members? Have you also missed the derision they get and their current obsession with derailing the discussion over on Scotsnet away from Snp-led library and community centre closures and possible political influence on the criminal justice system with, I kid you not, username changing on mumsnet?

Who is promoting it - The Wee Frees?

I didn't know the DUP had a Scottish branch.

@Ithinkyoucan

Doesn't mean I can't be worried for where all this is going for others though

And yes, I am worried where the closing down of debate will lead to for others. .

Again...

Who is closing down debate?

@Quaagars

Seems quite a few going by these comments are fine with them because well at least they agree with me on trans!

Isn't it interesting that that particular cohort start threads about nutters writing things on twitter that are not actual legislation yet when it's the 'other side' we are told shut up , just don't vote for them?

And these are often the same people claiming we are closing down debate

@StarCat2020

Could I just add one thing?

Murder (in E & W) does not require pre-meditation.

The intent has to be that the accused has to either kill or seriously injure a living human being.

I'm not sure that is true.

@Fieldoftheclothofgold

I have never at any point asked anyone to be silent. Just to be mindful about how they word things. Is that now outrageous?

To ask other people to self-censor in a serious discussion about human rights based on your personal feelings? It is, yes. Nobody was indulging in hate speech.

Not my personal feelings.

The reactions if other posters on the thread.

Self censoring isn't the same as being silent , is it?

[quote CokeDrinker]@Quaagars It works both ways if you support taking a woman's right to exist in safe spaces away.[/quote]
You're being hypocritical here.

If the argument is people can say whatever they like., Why can't qaagars say that?

Or is free speech only OK if you agree ?

@Feelinghothothottoday

OP / I don’t think the leaflet is hate speech.

Why do you think it is.

I didn't say it was.

@Butwasitherdriveway You clearly misunderstood my point. I was saying that Quaagars was being hypocritical if they didn't want women to speak out to protect victims of domestic violence and abuse and their safe spaces.

@Butwasitherdriveway in my opinion it is.
And I'm not the only one who thinks it.

Not my personal feelings.
The reactions if other posters on the thread.
Self censoring isn't the same as being silent , is it?

So true.

If I didn't self-censor when I get worked up about something, every other fucking word would be a sweary one.

[quote CokeDrinker]@Butwasitherdriveway You clearly misunderstood my point. I was saying that Quaagars was being hypocritical if they didn't want women to speak out to protect victims of domestic violence and abuse and their safe spaces.[/quote]
I did indeed.

I had thought you were one of the posters saying if you dont like it don't vote for it etc etc

What do you mean about domestic violence?

Apologies

[quote Mookie81]@Butwasitherdriveway in my opinion it is.
And I'm not the only one who thinks it.[/quote]
I can see that, but just because more than one person thinks something it doesn't make it right.

@Butwasitherdriveway and if you read my previous posts on this very thread, you will see I said there is no such thing as free speech without consequences or unfettered free speech. I think you have me confused with someone else. All I've done is defend women's rights; rights to safe spaces, and rights to bodily autonomy.

@Butwasitherdriveway Cool. I meant women's rights to be in a women's shelter with women, and not men pre-gender operational assignment.

@TheSandman

Not my personal feelings. The reactions if other posters on the thread. Self censoring isn't the same as being silent , is it?

So true.

If I didn't self-censor when I get worked up about something, every other fucking word would be a sweary one.

I don't know what world posters live in when they think it's perfectly and utterly acceptable to speak in a particular way about a situation which directly affects the person they're talking to.

And before the wee tribe start up again, I'm not referring necessarily to that poster. It seems to be a trend of the modern age to say whatever you like because 'you can't silence me'. And for the poster talking about consequences, of course there are consequences. Mainly that people will not think you are a decent person.

I was saying that Quaagars was being hypocritical if they didn't want women to speak out to protect victims of domestic violence and abuse and their safe spaces.

Where on earth have I said I didn't want women to speak out to protect victims of domestic violence?
Of course they should, I've never said otherwise.
Going by the next bit though and abuse and their safe spaces I'm assuming because I comment on trans issues on here?
Your comment would only make sense if you think women need protecting from trans people - which is kind of a whole other tangent and nothing to do with whether I think women should be protected from abusers though (which of course I do)
If you mean need to be kept away from trans people in general, then that's where it starts to tip into discrimination and the rest, isn't it..... which is kind of the point people are making.....discrimination is OK but only if it's those I want to discriminate against kind of thing.

@Butwasitherdriveway
Let me guess, since this is MN, bottom right hand corner?

Well this is a big old argument considering it’s about a bunch of religious nuts looking to put women, etc in their place,,below men..

Op there will always be a few who vote for this kind of thing. Same as the BNP or any other party of this ilk who look to put sectors of society below them.

If someone likes a bit of that then my honest opinion is not to engage. You likely wouldn’t in real life. And you won’t change their minds.

I’d just genuinely hope no woman or right thinking man would vote for them, and certainly none with children. And I suspect when the voting numbers come out, the small minority will demonstrate that to be the case.

@Quaagars

I was saying that Quaagars was being hypocritical if they didn't want women to speak out to protect victims of domestic violence and abuse and their safe spaces.

Where on earth have I said I didn't want women to speak out to protect victims of domestic violence?
Of course they should, I've never said otherwise.
Going by the next bit though and abuse and their safe spaces I'm assuming because I comment on trans issues on here?
Your comment would only make sense if you think women need protecting from trans people - which is kind of a whole other tangent and nothing to do with whether I think women should be protected from abusers though (which of course I do)
If you mean need to be kept away from trans people in general, then that's where it starts to tip into discrimination and the rest, isn't it..... which is kind of the point people are making.....discrimination is OK but only if it's those I want to discriminate against kind of thing.

My comment should be self-explanatory. Women being protected from penis and testicle havers.

Ah the classic 'people will not think you are a decent person' threat.
Dont you know how much people hate that restriction. The thought policing is off the wall.

My core values and beliefs... the protection of innocents / babies, free speech, free democratic debate, the ability to leave an undemocratic overpriced club if we wish to, feminism, the right of women to pull and shag men when they are drunk, flirting...oh how sad I am that flirting is now banned...are more important than being included by people who I increasingly despise, alongside my increasing fear of them, and their thought policing.

@Crystal90567

Ah the classic 'people will not think you are a decent person' threat. Dont you know how much people hate that restriction. The thought policing is off the wall.

My core values and beliefs... the protection of innocents / babies, free speech, free democratic debate, the ability to leave an undemocratic overpriced club if we wish to, feminism, the right of women to pull and shag men when they are drunk, flirting...oh how sad I am that flirting is now banned...are more important than being included by people who I increasingly despise, alongside my increasing fear of them, and their thought policing.

When was flirting banned?