To not be able to believe what I'm reading

[Butwasitherdriveway]

Had a leaflet through my door......

I'm lost for words.

I’m in Australia and quite convinced that Margaret Atwood is a clairvoyant. We are ever closer to Gilead. WTAF is it with misogynist, fundamentalist bullshit like this? It’s all over the world!!!

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. They are standing for election not mounting a coup

I know that, but I meant if they got elected though they would presumably be discriminating against non traditional family set ups, and making it hard for vulnerable/distressed women to have an abortion if they need one.
That kind of does affect others and affect their lives, does it not?

Seems quite a few going by these comments are fine with them because well at least they agree with me on trans!

@Quaagars

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. They are standing for election not mounting a coup

I know that, but I meant if they got elected though they would presumably be discriminating against non traditional family set ups, and making it hard for vulnerable/distressed women to have an abortion if they need one.
That kind of does affect others and affect their lives, does it not?

So don’t vote for them!

So don’t vote for them!

Erm.... I'm not going to.
You feel free to if you want to though.
That's kind of how it works.

What doesn't sit right with me though is people imposing their beliefs on others to such an extent that they're impinging their right to live, to be themselves, whether that being gay, or trans, or wanting to take a woman's bodily autonomy away. It goes beyond an opinion when you try to force others to be the "right type" of person

But this is what the ' hate crime' or cultural trend of 'you are hateful' is doing! It has gone beyond an opinion into EXACTLY trying to force people to be the ' right sort of person'! That is exactly how this 'hate' idea is being used! It is trying to force women (and men) to accept that women are NOT defined by their sex and to socially shame and professionally destroy them if they don't submit! There was recently a move in the Scottish Parliament to try to take rape victim's bodily autonomy away by saying they could not choose the sex of the the medical examiner who examined them after their rape. That had to go to a vote, and there were MSPs and parties (looking at you Scottish Greens) who voted AGAINST women having this right.

The things you are opposed to ARE happening. And they are not happening via lunatic fringe parties with no power but by people with
power.

@Quaagars

So don’t vote for them!

Erm.... I'm not going to.
You feel free to if you want to though.
That's kind of how it works.

Well that is rather the point I was making!

They are only putting up 51 candidates though, compared to SNP’s 1257. Just to give a sense of scale.

@Quaagars

Seems quite a few going by these comments are fine with them because well at least they agree with me on trans!

Actually, if you read the thread, most people have said they disagree with them on everything BUT trans issue, so clearly they won't be voting for them.

@Quaagars

Seems quite a few going by these comments are fine with them because well at least they agree with me on trans!

That's a blatant misrepresentation of what people are saying.

Why were you motivated to make such a misrepresentation?

@Ithinkyoucan

What doesn't sit right with me though is people imposing their beliefs on others to such an extent that they're impinging their right to live, to be themselves, whether that being gay, or trans, or wanting to take a woman's bodily autonomy away. It goes beyond an opinion when you try to force others to be the "right type" of person

But this is what the ' hate crime' or cultural trend of 'you are hateful' is doing! It has gone beyond an opinion into EXACTLY trying to force people to be the ' right sort of person'! That is exactly how this 'hate' idea is being used! It is trying to force women (and men) to accept that women are NOT defined by their sex and to socially shame and professionally destroy them if they don't submit! There was recently a move in the Scottish Parliament to try to take rape victim's bodily autonomy away by saying they could not choose the sex of the the medical examiner who examined them after their rape. That had to go to a vote, and there were MSPs and parties (looking at you Scottish Greens) who voted AGAINST women having this right.

The things you are opposed to ARE happening. And they are not happening via lunatic fringe parties with no power but by people with
power.

Yes, exactly. Of course of the surface it's totally reasonable to say hate speech is terrible, should be outlawed etc.

But when you look at what is being labelled as hate speech these days it is more and more just 'people who don't agree with me and make me uncomfortable'. That's what people like me are worried about.

It seems like proportionality is gone, and anyone who questions or has concerns about certain ideologies are branded hateful bigots.
That's why we are worried about legislation changes.

@MagicSummer
I have to say I am sympathetic to less sex education in school - in my opinion it is up to parents to teach their children about sex, not some institution. Also many schoolchildren find it toe-curlingly embarrassing. I never had sex education at school and it didn't do me any harm.

Also the same poster, in another thread:

MagicSummer Thu 04-Feb-21
Oh God - I hate sex. We are older (60s) but I just cannot be bothered with it. What is the point? Rather have my own bed and a quiet night than all that boring stuff.

Might I suggest that someone who in their own words 'hates sex' and 'cannot see the point of it' may not be in the best position to speak on how we should educate children about sex?

I also note that you are 'sick of black people moaning all the time' about racism, and that you don't care about the murder of gay people in the Middle East because you yourself are not gay or lesbian.

Interesting.

@MagicSummer

I have to say I am sympathetic to less sex education in school - in my opinion it is up to parents to teach their children about sex, not some institution. Also many schoolchildren find it toe-curlingly embarrassing. I never had sex education at school and it didn't do me any harm.

The evidence is very clear that high quality sex education which is not optional reduces teenage pregnancy and abortion rates. What's undesirable about that? Too many parents will not provide good sex education - because the're embarrassed, incompetent or opposed and believe that not giving sex education will mean their little darlings will 'retain their innocence' and not have sex. Too many parents stil disavow their DC for being gay. And that's why it has to be done in schools, so every child gets a fair go.

@Quaagars

Seems quite a few going by these comments are fine with them because well at least they agree with me on trans!

That is an outright lie. Literally not one person has said that. Many have said the exact opposite.

Are you going to retract your lie?

We value 'families'.

We value white, middle class nuclear families with white collar jobs and 2.4 children living in leafy suburbs.

Vile.

As for the abortion? Don't get me started.

Then again something I seek comfort from was an article I read during the American election. The pull of an anti abortion law/abortion restriction appeals to extreme right wingers of all religions. It guarantees votes but they never intend to act upon it.

[quote ChairmansReserve]@MagicSummer
I have to say I am sympathetic to less sex education in school - in my opinion it is up to parents to teach their children about sex, not some institution. Also many schoolchildren find it toe-curlingly embarrassing. I never had sex education at school and it didn't do me any harm.

Also the same poster, in another thread:

MagicSummer Thu 04-Feb-21
Oh God - I hate sex. We are older (60s) but I just cannot be bothered with it. What is the point? Rather have my own bed and a quiet night than all that boring stuff.

Might I suggest that someone who in their own words 'hates sex' and 'cannot see the point of it' may not be in the best position to speak on how we should educate children about sex?

I also note that you are 'sick of black people moaning all the time' about racism, and that you don't care about the murder of gay people in the Middle East because you yourself are not gay or lesbian.

Interesting.[/quote]
Those opinions are equally as repulsive.

Fun fact - when minorities say there is a problem with racism, there is a problem with racism. Regardless of whether we white people deny it - we're not the ones being discriminated against.

Imagine not caring about the murder of thousands of people across the world.

It is like the Martin Niemoller poem - 'Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Jew... then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out.'

Check your privilege because sheerly by the grace of God it is not you walking in their place.

I'm not in Scotland, but the guy in charge of this party would hate me! I'm a single parent who has always worked even when still married. I have two children who are both gay and a fostered son who is a trans man. I am pro choice and come from a country where corporal punishment in schools (which is clearly what this man wants) was outlawed in the 1930s.

OP, there will always be revolting people and revolting political movements. Daylight and ridicule is probably the best solution - let them make fools of themselves.

Then again something I seek comfort from was an article I read during the American election. The pull of an anti abortion law/abortion restriction appeals to extreme right wingers of all religions. It guarantees votes but they never intend to act upon it.

They are acting on it, although it's in a more subtle way.

In some states women HAVE to have an ultrasound before they can have an abortion.
In some states there is a mandatory waiting period before you can have an abortion (some are 3 days)
In some states a doctor at a clinic must have hospital admitting privileges.
In some states the corridors of a clinic much be wide enough for two hospital beds to be able to pass each other, even though most abortions don't need a bed.

There are crisis pregnancy centres where can be outright lied to. (abortion causes cancer etc) and where staff don't need to have any training. They are often paid for by tax money.

You ban these views, you send them underground to fester.

Let them speak and then take their views to the cleaners.

How could anyone with half a brain cell agree with that?! Oh yeah hate speech is great, we want lots more of that please, the clues in the name

@bobbythejobby

I had a leaflet from them also and, out of curiosity, had a quick read through their 'manifesto' on their website. I didn't like any of it but two parts really stood out to me; those without dependent children would have to pay more tax and that they see this as fair as children will be paying for the current generation's retirement. Right, cause that's fair, almost like a punishment for those of us who don't have children for whatever reason. And that they would like fathers to be involved in decisions about abortion - I immediately thought well what happens if you have a controlling or abusive partner or you've been raped. It made me rather angry reading it but I can't (hope) see them getting many votes.

This nonsense about potential fathers (because how can you kniw 100% that it us the father) being involved in permission fur abortion has been kicking around in Scotland for years now.

I remember a case a while back involving a woman in Edinburgh who was denied an abortion while the likely father pursued an action through the courts.

There are some fairly eminent lawyers in Scotland, who being gay men, have somewhat let's say unsympathetic views towards forced pregnancy. It's not the first time I've heard of this notion in Scotland anyway.

The problem is that anything that delays abortion makes it less likely due to the timescale involved. Even granting potential fathers minimal rights would inevitably create problems for women seeking abortion.

It would also be a breach of the human right to bodily autonomy, but those in Scottish politics seem unceasingly sketchy on human rights.

I am in Central Scotland, but apparently they're all over Scotland.

Certainly in the Highlands - and they've got a shitty proofreader, two of the subheadings start with capitol letters the rest lower case.

'Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Jew... then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out.'

Check your privilege because sheerly by the grace of God it is not you walking in their place.

Exactly
Just because I'm not gay, or trans, or a single parent (I'd probably fit nicely into their little box of "traditional family actually, being someone who has been married for years, and neither of us had kids until we were both married to each other as that's what we wanted)
Doesn't mean I can't be worried for where all this is going for others though.

It is like the Martin Niemoller poem - 'Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak up because I wasn't a Jew... then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out.'

And that's exactly one of the many reasons why I am in favour of free speech so that people know they are able to speak out for those who need someone to speak out for them. Instead of being too scared to.

Are they much different to the current government?