Parents of adult DC's - can you help me please? Or even adult DC's who might recognise this dilemma?

[usernamesusedup]

I've namechanged and I will change some minor details here as I think former daugher in law may be on the site.

DS is 37 and is very, very unhappily SE in the construction industry (skilled trade). He and former DIL have young DS who they have 50/50 care of. DIL lives with her parents. DS has a flat he rents from a mate although this is not a permanent, long term thing it is working very well, it suits both of them (it is informal set up). DS and DIL (when they were together) spent long periods living either with her parents or with me.
There is long backstory but the essential dilemma for me is this:

DS has asked whether (in theory) I would let him move in with me if he gives up his job and his Plan B fails (his Plan B is something we go around and around in circles with; he wants to be Police Officer but has been turned down because he needs another A level so is in the process of applying for PCSO post. Recruitment is suspended currently so he is in limbo and still might not get in).

I have had a growing sense that this is where our many talks have been leading.
I responded honestly; that I would find that hard. My house is tiny and open plan, I use my spare room for working from home which is likely to be permanent arrangement after the pandemic has passed. So it all kind of went tits up at that point; DS saying he was just asking 'what if' but in my mind it wasn't like that because every time we get to a point whereby it looks like DS might help himself improve and expand his skill set (courses, etc) it goes back into "I just can't carry on in this job". He said that if the situation were reversed and I turned up at his door he would not hesitate to take me in. Although that scenario has not, and would never, happen, so I feel pretty defeated tbh.

I am 62 and I am tired, really tired. I have alot of responsibility at work, I am a carer for my DF and most of the time when I'm not working or doing something for DF or on his behalf I'm pretty much spent.

But - the upshot is (after he left with us both upset) I feel shitty.
I feel on the horns of a dilemma. He hasn't actually asked to move back in so there isn't an issue. But at the same time, there is.

So, I'm not sure what I'm asking for but anyone who has perhaps been in a similar situation, what did you do? What ideas do you have as to how I might position myself here? He's an adult, yes, but also my DS and I think I feel far too responsible for his life.

I think volunteering is an excellent idea as that way he isn’t jumping from one job he hates to another he also hates

With the update about his hearing though would that be a fundamental problem with regards to getting through the medical for getting into the police force.

I think there are a few things going on.
I think he is depressed and he needs to get medication and therapy for that.

Would it be possible for him to see a careers advisor of some sort or look seriously at his skills (which it sounds like he has a lot of) and work out a career plan.

The job he is doing that he hates can he work out if there are certain specific issues that if they weren’t there would make the job better. I.e working for himself and only taking on the jobs he likes doing
Regarding his martial arts training. Would he be interested in teaching it and/or looking at some of the agencies for Extra work/stunt work type stuff eg fight scenes in tv and films etc.
(I know a martial arts teacher who does this type of thing)
He could teach martial arts, do a few construction jobs he enjoys and do a bit of film work and do a bit of volunteer police work. He doesn’t have to be just one thing.

This is a tough one.

My son is 30 but I'm still in my 40's and have the space if he needed to come home. However, your son's reason for wanting to come back is different than if my son came back (it would be the break down of his marriage) and likely to be a stop gap for a bit of emotional support.

It's hard because the love is so strong but I think in your circumstances I'd say no in a cruel to be kind way. He needs to grow up and sort his stuff out.

You're all amazing by the way thank you!

It's a good thought to investigate whether he could move in with DF, and possibly take on some of that caring responsibility to give you a break.

My son in law applied to the police. He had experience as a special, is physically and mentally fit, and appeared to tick all the boxes. But he still didn't get in. Places are really not easy to get.

I think the chances of your DS getting in are very very small, and you taking him and his son into your tiny open-plan place would a terrible idea. He would never move out again.

It's one thing to take in your child in an emergency (one of mine came back for a few months when she split with her partner who owned the home she'd shared) but quite another when they're just looking for an easy way out with no exit plan in place.

Just seen your update about his work style not being in line with the mass construction and him not having people skills doing private work.

Would buying a very very cheap place that needs gutting be a good idea and then working on that so he doesn’t have a “boss” and can work as quickly or as slowly as he likes then selling it and repeating that model over and over whilst doing the other things to bring the money in. He could then live on site which would save money on renting.

Friends son went and did a degree in mental health nursing at same age. He sounds rudderless and without direction. Might be worth looking at getting him booked in with life coach or careers advisor type person.

My god, you're 62 years old and still caring for every bloody person in your orbit on top of a job. You must be exhausted. This is not your problem to carry any more than caring for your DF is yours to carry. I understand why you want to, truly, and yet there has to come a point where you see that carving out your own space/time and protecting it fiercely is not the same thing as abandoning your loved ones.

I'd be very tempted to find a little home of my own and let your DS and DF live together, seeing as both of them want a certain lifestyle that can only exist with you facilitating it all.

I get it. I'm married to an adhder who sounds the same. Wants something, presented with what he needs to get there but doesnt do it. Utterly frustrating

Is your DS someone who talks about making changes, but does nothing ?

There is a big difference between talking & doing

I would encourage him to make the changes & support himself, due to him being a father & having responsibilities

Has he had counselling? He really sounds like he needs to talk through all these issues with someone trained to help him identify the issues.

I don't think buying a doer upper is the way to go - even if OP could afford it.
A distant relative did this with his DS.DS is same age as me so 51 and DF in his 80s. It resulted in huge rows over how things were done. The DS thought that the DF would provide a blank cheque book, the DF was unhappy about how long things were taking.

If the DS can claim carers allowance then him moving in and looking after his DGF provides accommodation, some money and something useful to put on his CV as carers are always required.

My very elderly neighbour had this kind of set up with her grandchild. Grandchild needed a roof over her head (that would accept her cat), grandmother was fiercely independent but was happy to have grandchild living with her on very low rent "as a favour". You can only charge so much in rent before there are tax implications I think, and TBH I think my neighbour quite liked this excuse and the sense that it was her doing the grandchild a favour. I don't get the impression there was a personal care thing, it was more that the grandchild could empty the bins, change the lightbulbs, help with the shopping, and generally be on hand. I don't think it was always easy but the arrangement seemed to work well for them both.
It's like any housesharing arrangement, it works if both sides do their bit but it can be hell if not. In due time grandchild moved on and grandmother kept the cat.

I wonder if a rejig of the plans is in order. It sounds like the police thing isn't really Plan B, it's plan A. And he doesn't like his current work. So maybe he needs to reframe it as Plan A - apply to police (however unlikely this is to work out), Plan B - something else tbc, which he can start developing ideas on, Plan C - carry on with current work.

I wonder if there is something he can do to turn his trade into selling products so there is less to and fro with the customer and no construction sites. Eg if he's a carpenter make bookshelves or tables and sell on eBay or Etsy. Or retrain as a plasterer. They tend to work more on their own than other trades I think. When we had building work done everyone else cleared off for a couple of days while the plasterer (who coincidentally wore hearing aids) did his thing. He said the quiet was the best thing about his job. It would suit a meticulous worker well too. Downside of course is he'd have to plaster!!

Honestly wouldn't hold out for police recruitment at the moment, it's in a awful state. My DH applied last February, was offered in April and he got his training start date last week - not until this September. That's 18 months and he's actually already police with another force so it should have been a simple transfer.

I'd also say no to him living with you. I had to recently move in with my parents after our house sold but our purchase was delayed. It was really stressful for everyone and I wouldn't do it again.

Op others have given you fab advice. You sound like a fab person but I think that you need to disengage with your son and stop whst sounds like the same old conversations happening again and again.

He is an adult and a parent. He needs to move his own life on.

Good luck.

rookiemere

I don't think buying a doer upper is the way to go - even if OP could afford it.
A distant relative did this with his DS.DS is same age as me so 51 and DF in his 80s. It resulted in huge rows over how things were done. The DS thought that the DF would provide a blank cheque book, the DF was unhappy about how long things were taking

My suggestion was for him to buy something really cheap to do up. Not for someone to buy a place for him. That way he can take as much or as little time as he likes.

Like the idea about making things to sell as another way to earn money.

Firstly can I just say that you are some kind of super woman to be doing everything you are doing and supporting your ds with all his issues. Remember to pat yourself on the back because you are clearly one strong lady.
Until he has tackled his anxiety and low self esteem (because his attitude smacks of that to me), then he won't move forward. The Police idea is just a crutch in my opinion because he doesn't know what else to aim for. Sorting his mental health out will put him in a better place to know what career will suit him.
Don't take him in. I firmly believe that will not help him and in fact might hold him back even more. Sometimes as parents we have to do the tough stuff because we know long term it's what is in their best interests. Stay strong.

When he talks about 'in theory' you could say if 'in theory' you had a much bigger house it might work but sadly in the current situation it's wouldn't. That way it is the situation that is blocking him, not you.

Hankunamatata

I get it. I'm married to an adhder who sounds the same. Wants something, presented with what he needs to get there but doesnt do it. Utterly frustrating

As someone who ticks all the boxes for ADHD. I can tell you that it might be frustrating for those around us when asked to do even simple tasks but it is completely exhausting to be the one who needs to do the simple task of they have ADHD.
It is like being asked to fill out a form.
For a non adhd person it is a simple 5 minute job. For someone with ADHD it is the equivalent of asking them to scale Mount Everest with an arm and a leg tied behind their back. It becomes an enormous task that is so big and exhausting just thinking about it that we just don’t think about it and move on to what peaks our interest.

If usernamesusedup’s ds has ADHD then the multiple income streams I suggested could help as then he isn’t doing anything for too long moving on to the next next random thing.

I think getting himself tested would be the first thing to do.
(I have filled out and lost my form so many times then managed to put my form in to the adult mental health unit only for them to lose it so am starting again. I can’t face filling in the new form again and has sat on the side cabinet looking at me for a week)

I am really hoping I get assessed and I get medication. My family I think are all ADHD and used to take speed just to go and do a job. Without it they wouldn’t do anything

I would say no. He might be stuck at yours forever, no job and 50/50 child care would suddenly fall to you. Better to say no now rather than kick him out in 10 years time. As a responsible adult he ought to do his a levels part time in the evenings, alongside his job. Its irresponsible to intentionally become jobless and homeless. Even when he completes his a levels theres no guarantee he ll become a police officer! It's so hard to get into, my cousins friends having been trying for years with no success. He ll enjoy having his washing, cleaning and dinner taken care of by you. Say no and stick to it. Please dont feel bad.

I'm struck that all of your suggestions have been turned over and over with DS already and yet here I am turning to strangers in case I've missed something.

Yes, that's quite striking, you really have tried to think of eveything.

You seem to be starting from the point that it's your job to think of a solution and hand it over to your son, and that if you can only tell him the right solution then everything will be fine. But life doesn't work like that. If your son can't or wont make the effort to solve his own problems as an adult, and learn from his own mistakes and live with the consequences, then you can't do it for him, and your efforts will only make him more and more dependent on you - and resentful of you too, in the long run.

Have you considered any psychological help for your own issues? Your own past seems to be making you over-reliant on doing everything for everyone else.

Wow I find this a little ridiculous. I would just say, in theory no there is no way this would work.

He is a grown man and a father and his plan is to quit work and live for free with Mum? How does he plan on financially supporting his child? If he is unhappy in his job then he finds a new one, quitting and giving up when you are a parent isn't really an option.

I probably sound harsh but I just find it hard to understand someone who is a father with his own responsibilities just giving up like that. Have you asked him how he hypothetically plans to support his child?

50/50 child care would suddenly fall to you.

Jeeze, I didn't pick up on that, and yes, it's a given.

Don't do this, OP. You downsized, you don't have room. That's all you need to say.

He has phoned since my last post. He has apologised for yesterday and acknowledges the impossible position his question put me in; that it's not even a workable solution. Has gone away and thought about it and is going to do an I.T. skills course just because he wants to find his way around Microsoft applications; he said of everything we talked about yesterday the course I found on the internet (Pitman) was the only thing that struck a chord with him right now because it's something he is actually interested in.

We also talked about what it means that I try and help him; what it means that he knows that I went to University as a lone parent with no support and he has his sibs and me plus some good, close friends.

He came up with the thought that I am not the right person for him to talk about his work and career goals and that he should find someone who isn't emotionally connected - I didn't argue with that point obviously.

I think if you were to do it, you would need a specific end date. My mum let me move in after my marriage broke down (no children though) and she gave me a year to get back on my feet.

However in my case, she had a spare room that I could use.